So getting an AR seems unlikely, so...

Based on Silverado's points how about a M1 Garand? 8 shots of SA .30-06 is nothing to scoff at.

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a garand would cost double that of any gun discussed thus far... even if you do get one of the cheap ones from the CMP

Guillermo said:

3D printing can be used to create objects from plastic

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Not only plastic, other materials like titanium powder as well. Plastics are just the most common in consumer devices and the first stereolitography machines are entering the market right now. Their "prints" can match injection molding in strength.

Get what you can.

Various options:

Ruger Scout Rifle (bolt action with 10 round magazine)
Lever action rifle
Shotgun (setup for slugs with red dot since max range is 100-125 yards)
Garand from the CMP (around $650 shipped)

Optics are quite important for improving your gun's performance. Red dots optics can be added to all of these guns. The Garand and Ruger Scout will have difficulty with a variable optic due to the design of the receiver. However, you can mount a short rail forward of the receiver and mount an Aimpoint Micro. Most lever guns can be modified with a rail near the rear sight.

Red dots on lever guns makes shooting almost like cheating. It really works. If you have issues with seeing multiple dots like I do, consider the Leupold Prismatic. It features an etched reticle, however, battery life is poor. But, the etched reticle will always work.

Also remember the length of pull on a shotgun is very important. Most are too long for most shooters, so look for one that has an adjustable stock (or buy an aftermarket one and budget $75-150 for it).

tahunua001 said:

a garand would cost double that of any gun discussed thus far... even if you do get one of the cheap ones from the CMP

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Huh? A field grade CMP is $525 plus $25 shipping. I'm no mathematician but that isn't twice as much as even the cheapest firearm discussed here (even before the hysteria). SKSs and Hi-Points are almost up to $500 on gun broker. I'm not sure where you are finding semi-auto centerfire rifles for half the price of field grade Garands but please let me know in a PM.

the SKS and hipoints can still be found for less than $250, I bought one for $239 last week so I know it can be done. then marlin 336 is a $400 average lever gun. I am sorry though I did forget about field grades...I normally don't look at anything lower than service grade but with some of the beat up service grades I've seen I would be reluctant to suggest a field grade M1.

tomrkba: your comment about the long pull on a shotgun is well taken. Last year in a multi-law enforcement agency shotgun seminar I decided to use my old Mossberg 500 instead of the supplied Remington 870 and had numerous problems cycling it. The instructor noticed this and during a break he measured my arm length (I wear a 16/32 dress shirt) and said, "That's the problem right there. Your arm is too short." So I took it (the shotgun, not my arm) to a gunsmith who cut 1 1/2" off the stock. No more problem.

Are AKs pretty much gone too? I havent gotten out much since the panic started.

A good old saiga sporter or wasr 10 would be a good start.

Wasrs 10s were selling for $1300 last I checked on gunchoker. they are gone for hte most part and those that are left are at completely unreasonable prices.

one can still get an ar, only they'll have to wait a bit. i ordered a rra predator
pursuit a couple weeks ago and expect to have it in 3 months. this panic will end before too long and ar's will slowly make their way back on the shelves.

Get a carbine. An M1 Carbine. They haven't been driven up to gouger prices that I've seen. You should still be able to find one for $700 or so, and ammo is less than 5.56. YMMV.
RT

Lever actions are nice. That is the direction I went as I am stuck in Chicago.

The Marlin 1894 is nice as it gets you 10 rounds of .44 Magnum, which gives you a good 200 yard rifle. It also gives you a nice cartridge that can be shared with a handgun as well, simplifying the number of cartridges one needs to keep in stock. And for more fun you can easily throw a red dot on it.

tomrkba said:

Get what you can.
Optics are quite important for improving your gun's performance. Red dots optics can be added to all of these guns. The Garand and Ruger Scout will have difficulty with a variable optic due to the design of the receiver. However, you can mount a short rail forward of the receiver and mount an Aimpoint Micro.

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It is very easy to add a variable optic to the Ruger GSR as it comes out of the box, either by using a forward mounted Scout scope on the factory rail, or a traditional scope using the supplied factory rings. Aftermarket mounting options make it even easier.

I'd say a CMP M1.

Guillermo said:

you can print a 3D object, like an AR lower

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No, not really. I know quite a bit about 3-D printing and to date, there is no plastic formulation that I'm aware of, that will handle the stresses that a lower requires. But it will no doubt come.
For now, what surprises me is that people are not yet 'printing' Magpul-style magazine bodies. Yes, you'll still need a spring but everything else can be printed. I wonder who will be first to 3-D laser scan a mag housing and parts and post it on some open-source print data site?

V
P.S. Re the OP, an MP5 clone (preferably an AT94) would be an excellent defensive weapon. Or, if something more powerful was required, a Ruger Gunsite Scout (I don't have one but would really like to get one) would be a good choice. A mix of 'old and new'.

If you want an AR, just be patient. They will be available from many vendors between now an when/if some sort of new AWB legislation is passed. Or, pay $1500 now for a rifle that was $750 a month ago ... there are plenty of those available.

Realistically the only way something gets passed on a National level is an Exectutive Order end-around, and EO's can't be in direct confilct with current law, so options are few. The current House would most likely not pass ANY new gun control legislation.

Patience ...

f you want an AR, print one

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I guess you missed the part where it broke after 6 shots with an AR5.7 upper on it -- a lot less recoil than a 5.56 would have.

Long way from anything practical at individually affordable prices.

NASA has 3D printer than "prints" using stainless steel, but its a multi-million dollar machine. So I'm not saying relatively low stress firearms items will never be 3D printed -- S&W etc. are probably looking into it, but getting 3D printers to match the output of a modern production line will take some doing.

The current House would most likely not pass ANY new gun control legislation.

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I sure hope you are correct, but we've been sold out before in 1993 by formerly solidly pro-gun Jack Brooks. We must make sure current House members are reminded of the story of how he sold us out and lost his re-election in 1994 to a fringe, perennial, Walter Mitty-like candidate David Stockman

I assume the CMP has plenty of M1's available?

Guillermo said:

if you want an AR, print one

The way I understand the law, you can build your own gun (you can't sell it)

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/07/27/3d-printed-ar-15/

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Not only can you build your own gun, you CAN later sell it (as long as you put a serial number and certain other information on it as described by statute) if you choose.

There are plenty of places that sell 80% lowers (though I haven't looked recently to see how they've been selling, or if the panic has affected them)

What is an 80% lower and what is involved in making it a 100% lower?

What is an 80% lower and what is involved in making it a 100% lower?

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Less than 80% complete by BATFE rules.

Easy to complete if you have a machine shop, otherwise not too practical as you'd likely spend more on the tooling and jigs to compete it than just buying a finished lower.

There was a guy ready to sell a two piece bolt together lower (Shotgun News had an article on it), but the BATFE jumped on him hard as bolting two pieces together was deemed a lot more than 80% complete by their definitions.

If you have a CNC mill its "easy" to buy a raw forged lower and finish it as the AR lower G-code programs are pretty easy to find on line -- its the basis of the 3D printed lowers projects going around (which broke after six shots with an AR5.6 upper).

Thanks, Wally, now I am indeed enlightened. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, plus I don't have a CNC mill. I think I'll just wait until the tsunami subsides.

A week before Newtown I was in my LGS and saw an AR-15 for $675. A week after Newtown the same AR had a brand new $1000 price tag.

If you want, you can have my ar lower to make a mold out of plaster of Paris. You would only be able to fire crummy frangible ammo, though.


Seriously, just wait a couple of months.

SKS or 12gauge Shotgun would by my suggestions.

If I could not get an AR, AK, etc and wanted a defensive gun I would look into a lever gun or the a Remington 7615.

The 7615 is a pump action that takes AR magazines. I haven't looked to seriously into these guns. As such I cannot say if it is what I would choose in the end but I would give it a hard look.

The other option I would look at is a lever gun that was set up for this purpose. A bse lever gun can be had NIB for under $500. I would add a red dot, sling, and as with any defensive long gun, a light. One could debate calibers. In reality everything from pistol calibers to big bores like the 45/70 could be useful and have their advantages and trade offs. I'd look hard at a 30-30 which would give performance similar to 7.62x39. It does, however, have a limited capacity. A 20" barreled gun likely will hold 6(+1), a 16" gun loses a round. Whereas a similar 20" gun in .357 mag tends to hold 10(+1). A .357 mag out of a 20" barrel almost approaches "real" rifle power. Depending on uses the .357 mag may be a better choice.

A lever gun can be run like a hybrid between a shotgun and rifle. Its like a shotgun in shooting and loading and trying to keeping it topped off.

A nice thing about getting a lever gun is that you'd have a gun worth owning even if you latter could get an AR, etc.

Here are some defensive lever guns:

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I like the rail with the micro aimpoint and an offset surefire. It similar to how I like an AK set up.

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I'd prefer this to ammo on the stock. It is faster to get at and load. It also doesn't interfere with switching shoulders like an ammo holder on the stock could.

A side saddle I saw once, not sure if it is widely available.

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