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Question About Win Model 70 Pre-64

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hotajax

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I've been checking the auction sites, gun shops etc. Looking for this gun in a .270. Were there some years that Winchester put a black tip on the end the foreend, or am I getting my brands mixed up? Does a stock with black tip bring higher trade value later on? Thank you. Hot Ajax
 
hotajax, the pre 64 Model 70 was made from 1937 to 1963. There were 581,471 rifles produced in the New Haven plant. The basic rifles were the Standard Grade with straight comb stock, Standard Grade with MonteCarlo comb, Featherweight with straight comb, Featherweight with MonteCarlo comb, Super Grade, and Super Grade with MonteCarlo comb. The super grade has the black forend tip and in today's market costs 2 to 3 times as much as a standard grade. You can expect to pay somewhere between $700 to $1200 for a 270 standard grade or featherweight rifle in very good to excellent condition. I wouldn't recommend buying one where the receiver has been reblued because that drops the value considerably, don't buy one where extra holes have been drilled in the receiver, and I would recommend buying a rifle with a straight tang receiver because replacement stocks are easily found. Look closely at the condition of the metal because 80% of the value is in the condition of the metal. The best places to buy a rifle are from an estate sale, an individual, or a small gun shop. A rifle with Weaver scope mount bases gets a 2nd look from me because it is likely in good condition with very little firing use. Model 70 dealers pick through the rifles and parts and often only sell the least desirable rifles. I have been shooting & tweeking pre 64 Model 70 rifles for almost 40 years and I really enjoy owning them. Good luck in finding a rifle that pleases you.
 
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sage5907 said:
hotajax, the pre 64 Model 70 was made from 1937 to 1963. There were 581,471 rifles produced in the New Haven plant. The basic rifles were the Standard Grade with straight comb stock, Standard Grade with MonteCarlo comb, Featherweight with straight comb, Featherweight with MonteCarlo comb, Super Grade, and Super Grade with MonteCarlo comb. The super grade has the black forend tip and in today's market costs 2 to 3 times as much as a standard grade. You can expect to pay somewhere between $700 to $1200 for a 270 standard grade or featherweight rifle in very good to excellent condition. I wouldn't recommend buying one where the receiver has been reblued because that drops the value considerably, don't buy one where extra holes have been drilled in the receiver, and I would recommend buying a rifle with a straight tang receiver because replacement stocks are easily found. Look closely at the condition of the metal because 80% of the value is in the condition of the metal. The best places to buy a rifle are from an estate sale, an individual, or a small gun shop. A rifle with Weaver scope mount bases gets a 2nd look from me because it is likely in good condition with very little firing use. Model 70 dealers pick through the rifles and parts and often only sell the least desirable rifles. I have been shooting & tweeking pre 64 Model 70 rifles for almost 40 years and I really enjoy owning them. Good luck in finding a rifle that pleases you.
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Sage: You are indeed the Prince of this forum. This is exactly the type of info I have been looking for, from someone who knows the M70 well. Personally, I think the lines on this rifle are just beautiful and can't wait until I find one I like. What calibers do you own / part with / want to buy? I was thinking if I could find it in 7 x 57, that wouldn't be bad, either. Thanks again. Hot Ajax
 
Hot Ajax, a 7X57 is very rare and would cost more than most of us could afford. I personally like the 270 Winchester & the 30-06. I also have a custom rifle with a 25-06 barrel. The easiest rifles to find are the 30-06 because there were so many made, the 270 being the next most available group. I personally like a 30-06 the best because it is an excellent deer or big game rifle and I am a hunter. During this ammo shortage I noticed that when all the other ammo was gone off the shelves 30-06 150 grain cartridges were still available and that is a big plus for buying a 30-06. In my opinion, some of the best rifles for a hunter were made between 1950 and 1959 and I personally prefer those with a montecarlo stock. This group all have straight tang receivers and for the most part they have better wood in the stock and larger checkering patterns. Serial number range from 131,581 through 465,040. I don't know your financial status but if I were short for cash I would buy a standard grade or featherweight in very good to excellent condition and fit it out with quality accessories when I could afford them. Things that adjust a 1950's Model 70 into a rifle that is as good or better than you can buy today are a Pachmayr Dedelerator recoil pad, Leupold dual dovetail rings & bases, and a quality scope with a 30 mm tube and 40 mm objective. If you get really plush with cash a McMillan pre 64 Winchester Montecarlo stock is fantastic. Also USN.
 
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Hey Jim, several years ago I let my favorite Model 70 slip out of an unzipped case in the garage and it landed on the steel butt plate and the shock chipped the toe of the stock. I was sick but the remedy was to cut the stock off 1 inch and install a recoil pad. Best thing that ever happened to me because my shooting really improved. I now look for rifles that already have a recoil pad installed. Not only that, dealers put a really high premium on rifles with an uncut stock. Why would I pay the extra $100 when what I want is a stock with a pad. If I bought a rifle with an uncut stock I would sell the stock and install a McMillan stock with a pad.
 
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sage-I own 3 steel butt pre 64 M70's in 30-06 and the recoil never seemed to bother me offhand. Shooting off bags on a bench I place a 25lb shot bag between me and the gun. You're right about a post war gun being easier to get stocks for though.
Also it can be very difficult to get scope bases for the pre war clover leaf tang models.
Even if you can find them the screw spacing on the bridge mount will most likely be wrong.
 
Jim, I understand your opinion of the steel buttplate because I felt that way in my early years of owning the rifles. They are really good looking to say the least. If I had one with a steel buttplate today it would be a safe queen and I like to shoot the rifles too much for that. Also, I never shoot from a bench. I am a hunter and not a collector so the nastalgia part is weak for me. Recoil from a featherweight 30-06 with full power hunting loads is noticable with a metal buttplate.
 
Sage- I shoot my M-70's from the bench for load development and sight in. Don't want recoil to bother me there. I don't ever remember noticing recoil in shooting at game. The excitement of the moment I guess, and [usually] heavy hunting coat just make it a non factor.

I may end up putting a pad on my latest project M-70 however. A first year receiver [4 digit SN] with a later 30-06 barrel-late 50's or so judging from the brazed on front sight. So it has no collector value. Also some hack sanded off all the checkering refinishing it. Plan is to rechamber to .358 Norma, and shorten barrel to 22". Install a one piece floor plate trigger guard to stiffen the stock.
That one may need a pad.
 
Jim, I've been thinking about a 338-06. In my early years of shooting I was an avid Jack O'Connor fan but after all these years I now think Elmer Keith was right about heavier bullets being better! I envy you living in Alaska. What a great opportunity to take a big moose. As to the checkering, you could buy a set of tools and re-cut the old fish patterns on your long winter evenings.
 
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All of my pre 64's still have the steel BP. Daughter shoots her 270 very well! None of us get black and blue from them.
Dan
;)
 
The other side of the steel buttplate debate is that if it has already been cut, the price goes down a bit. I was able to score a 1957 Featherweight in .30-06 (my favorite caliber) that had a recoil pad installed for a very reasonable price. While it is no beauty, the bore is perfect and it will shoot 1" groups with 165 grain bullets.
 
Sage-Don't need to buy the tools, still have all my Dem-Bart checkering tools from 1977 when I did my first recheckering job on a 1951 M-70. Still own that gun, will be buried with it.
I also grew up during the Keith- O'Conner print wars. Tended to side with O'Conner. Maybe Keith just irritated me with his harping that .33 was the minimum for big game.
I consider the 30-06 plenty good for moose. Have shot many with 30-06, 57 gr 4350 180 Nosler and they just drop.
Going with the .358 not because of moose, but because the area I hunt moose in is thick with brown bear. Been hunting there many years and passed up some nice browns because it was 1 brown every 4 years. Now it's one every year and I will not be passing up any.
 
OP, I have a pre 64 .270 Super-grade, best shootin rifle I have ever shot! Also have the .06 in standard.

Which brings to question if I may, anyone know the accepted 5 calibers in the "Pre-64" collection? .245, .270, .30-06, 300 mag & .338 ????? I want to get them all. :D:D
 
The other side of the steel buttplate debate is that if it has already been cut, the price goes down a bit. I was able to score a 1957 Featherweight in .30-06 (my favorite caliber) that had a recoil pad installed for a very reasonable price. While it is no beauty, the bore is perfect and it will shoot 1" groups with 165 grain bullets
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I remember buying as new pre-64 stocks from the shotgun news in the 70's for 50-75$. Barrels same price. They where just parted out for the action.
 
OP, I have a pre 64 .270 Super-grade, best shootin rifle I have ever shot! Also have the .06 in standard.

Which brings to question if I may, anyone know the accepted 5 calibers in the "Pre-64" collection? .245, .270, .30-06, 300 mag & .338 ????? I want to get them all.
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Didn't know there is a "accepted" 5 caliber collection.
Do know if someone had the following [all pre war] I would be very
impressed.
.22 hornet
.220 swift
7x57
.375 H&H
30-06 [must be a carbine]

.35 Rem would be the crown jewel.
 
hotajax, here are the pictures of my .270 Supergrade, it was made in 1957, was re-done once by my father who is now failing in health. It is my heirloom, he bought it in 1961 from a doctor for $120 and had only had 5 rounds fired. Together, my father and I have probably shot 500 rounds thru it. It still is a tack driver, about 10 years ago I used it in a long range competition with my work buddys for a lot of $$$$. We shot a 3 round group each at 500 yards, needless to say I won with a group of the only 3 all on the paper, at 1 & 5/16 inches. Best of my life and very proud of that day. Also put my .06 which was built in 1956 in standard grade, given to me by my wife as an anniversary gift.
 

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For me, as a hunter, the perfect pre 64 Model 70 collection would consist of a 25-06 (custom barrel), 270 Winchester, 30-06 and 338-06 (custom barrel). They would shoot bullets from 100 grain to 210 grain at velocities over 2800 feet per second. Couldn't get much better than that. Another comment on the metal buttplate, not everyone shoots a rifle with a 13 1/2 inch length of pull. My length of pull is 13 1/2 inches but I like a shorter stock when I'm hunting in heavy clothing in really cold weather. That's why you see so many Model 70 stocks that have been cut and recoil pads installed.
 
Hey Jim, I'll be waiting for a picture of that 358 Norma Magnum. If I were like you and chasing brown bears in the brush I would go for it. I bought a set of 338-06 RCBS dies today, now all I need is a featherweight contour barrel. I'm betting on you to get the job done first. It may take me two or three years to get that barrel. I've been shooting wild hogs since the first of the year with my 30-06 and looking for a chance at an elk with that project 338-06. Maybe I'll draw a tag. Ol Elmer did have an ego about that .33.
 
Idaho Slim said:
hotajax, here are the pictures of my .270 Supergrade, it was made in 1957, was re-done once by my father who is now failing in health. It is my heirloom, he bought it in 1961 from a doctor for $120 and had only had 5 rounds fired. Together, my father and I have probably shot 500 rounds thru it. It still is a tack driver, about 10 years ago I used it in a long range competition with my work buddys for a lot of $$$$. We shot a 3 round group each at 500 yards, needless to say I won with a group of the only 3 all on the paper, at 1 & 5/16 inches. Best of my life and very proud of that day. Also put my .06 which was built in 1956 in standard grade, given to me by my wife as an anniversary gift.
Click to expand...
Slim: That is a thing of beauty, wow. And a wife that goes out and buys a M70 for you. Now, all you need is someone to fillet and skin your fish for you. Congrats, that is a beautiful rifle. Hot Ajax
 
Jim, I have never owned one of the early Model 70's with the early type safety and cloverleaf tang but I have seen them at gun shows and they look great. That rifle should make an excellent basis for your project.
 
Sage- I was very fortunate to find that gun at a gun show. As I said, the barrel had been replaced so it had no collector value and was priced accordingly. Exactly what I was looking for, I would never mess with a original gun.
 
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