Aren't we forgetting something about Illinois?

I'm sorry. You must have mistaken our legislators for someone who cares!

I think you are realizing why the Founding Fathers felt it so important to note that this right "shall not be infringed," and that any permit requirement is unconstitutional.

That goes for so-called "gun friendly" states as well.

The ranges in Cool county are FEW and FARRR between. One of which I will probably never shoot at again due to the personalities of some of the staff there.

Cook county always has and probably always will obstruct this as much as possible. Anything mildly gun friendly they have to be dragged into kicking and screaming.

Fishbed, atleast you understand.

It's just blatantly unconstitutional to have so many restrictions on our rights.

Why are all the citizens of this country ok with this? I was born in the Netherlands and lived there for 20 before moving here and even though our rights were non-existant over in the Netherlands I can recognise the US is going in the same direction.

How much longer till gun ownership is only allowed if you meet the following criteria:

-Have to have been a member of a shooting club for atleast 1 year to purchase a firearm.
-Must have said firearm locked up seperately from ammo in a wall-mounted safe (subject to police inspections)
-Must take the most direct route to range, no stops at all.
-Self Defense is non-existant unless as a last resort.

This is the reality for gun owners in the Netherlands, our gun rights were taken on the sole reason that the government feared a civil revolt.

Fight for our rights before it's too late! Especially if the brady bunch aproves of your state.

Yes....but,

If it weren't for most states going 'shall-issue' with permits, we would not be in our current position, which has several states on the verge of going Constitutional Carry. It is a case where we took the opposition's playbook and used it against them. We had to use creeping incrementalism. If, in 1990 or so, we had just started a movement for all states to allow all people to carry concealed weapons, strict rules, no permits, we would not be where we are today. So, NOW we are in a position where we can push to do away with permits. (In my own state, we missed the opportunity this year, we are far from done.) I would much rather deal with the gun laws in Utah than Illinois.

And yes. this is a strong example of why it isn't ok to let the government put a training requirement on carrying.

As for how to deal with the situation in IL, they have made it difficult. If I were an instructor there, the first thing I would do is look for a landowner outside of town who would let me use some for this purpose. I would negotiate access with them and take responsibility for responsible use. If necessary, I would pay them a cut.

Then I would set up my classes in a way to get as much classroom time as possible done and pool up people to take to the range. This would probably mean partnering up with someone.

Mark my words, Chicago will find a way to thwart commonplace ccw in its city limits.... with or without regard to any law or court order.

Look at DC. Pre-Miller it was almost impossible to get a gun. Not much has changed post-Miller.

DC case was Heller decided 2008, Miller was decided 1939.

Incrementalism. When CCW was legalized in Tennessee each individual firearm that you wanted to carry had to be registered with the local sheriff. No such issues exist now. Likewise, many states have started doing away with permit and licensure requirement. Don't expect Illinois to go from no ccw to no restrictions on ownership and carry - that's simply unrealistic. Illinois firearm owners have their beach-head, its now time to keep pushing and expanding that beach-head.

And after you get cc legalized, then punitive steps like long multicast classes or expensive fees are possible to beat under equal protection. It is a start.

Old age or tiredness is setting in, yes, Heller, but my point stands.

DC case was Heller decided 2008, Miller was decided 1939.

Click to expand...

usmarine0352_2005 said:

.

Both the House and Senate versions for CCW require 16 hours of training and shooting.


Where are the gun ranges in Cook County? Are there any? What about gun stores? Will someone have to drive 3 hours to get to a gun range to shoot as is required? Even if it does pass, who will even be able to meet the requirements?




Also, how can a single mother at the poverty level, one the most vulnerable be able to take 2 full days off of work to get to the training and shooting? And the cost is prohibitive for her to practice her Constitutionally protected right?
.

Click to expand...

This is why us here in the fight are going nuts! The people that need it the most won't be able to get a permit due to costs and location, and it is their own state reps that will not stand up to the Chicago machine and fight for their own people, they are very anti-gun, but I guess its OK that all the gang bangers can have them.

Also, how can a single mother at the poverty level, one the most vulnerable be able to take 2 full days off of work to get to the training and shooting? And the cost is prohibitive for her to practice her Constitutionally protected right?

Click to expand...

They don't really want people to get the permit. So the more hoops they have to jump through, the less people will get one. Especially if these hoops are cost/time prohibitive.

Our county (Mendocino, California) requires a 16 hour course as well for CCW. They run it on the weekends, two consecutive 8 hour days.

This hasn't kept anyone here from getting their license that I know of.

Dan