Do you still believe that your gun related records are safe?

Still believe they're safe?? I NEVER did... And now things are worse.

So much for the tinfoil hat!

They have the data.

It is just a question of whether they have a reason and the legal justification to use it.

Do you still believe that your gun related records are safe?

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When we had to start filling out Federal paperwork to buy a gun I knew those records were never going to be "safe".


The guns without a paper trail, such as in face to face sales (I get or give NO information in FTF buys or sales) are safe as far as the Feds having any record of them.

Everything else that I bought from a FFL dealer can easily be traced to me.

It is just a question of whether they have a reason and the legal justification to use it.

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"legal justification"?
You are talking about a administration that sent guns to the Mexican drug dealers, that were used to kill Americans. Legal justification means nothing to them.

Being on paper instead of electronic makes them safer than many other records.
That is easily changed with modern scanners though, all in the name of cost savings.

It is just a question of whether they have a reason and the legal justification to use it. (emphasis added)

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Legal justification does not seem to be a concern of this administration.

thinking that in theory each of us could have a file that at some point all of our digital info flows through and at any time those in control of the file could search it in a variety if ways. Is this true?

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It's called "data mining" and can be used/mis-used in a variety of ways. Of recent note:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmir...teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

(shopping patterns led mega store to predict pregnancy and send targeted adds to the household before the father of the teenager had been informed of the pregnancy).

I never trusted this administration, especially since F&F, but I never imagined that simply chatting online with fellow gun folks could open me up to being spied on. Suddenly buying a gun from someone online just got several degrees scarier.

If I ever made a tin foil hat accusation to someone here, I would like to now extend my most sincere apologies.

Still believe they're safe?? I NEVER did... And now things are worse.

Click to expand...

Legal justification does not seem to be a concern of this administration.

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I have nothing to add, these two statements sum it all up!

The programs in question began in the wake of 911 and are a part of the Patriot Act. Both the Bush and Obama administrations have used them. They have been debated in Congress a number of times. They are legal. A number of the particulars about them, however, were kept secret from the American people particularly the extent.

These are weapons the ruling class has in it's hands that they can use against who ever they care to. Their past conduct shows that they have done this many times. They have also been stopped from using them in the past.

tipoc

Unless you only pay cash and only shop at mom and pop shops, then they don't need a 4473 to know that you own guns of at least a general type and caliber (e.g. data about purchases of ammo, holsters, optics, replacement parts, etc.).

This is just more data to layer on top of the data that they already mine from Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Paypal, banks, USPS, UPS, FEDEX, public and private CCTV cameras, etc.

We're well beyond the "Go to the sporting goods store. From the files obtain forms 4473. These will contain descriptions of weapons, and lists of private ownership." days of Red Dawn.

I don't care.

They aren't getting any of my guns anyway unless they physically come and take them.

Yes, knowing I have guns, even how many and what kind, would assist them in that. But it's a far cry from knowing this and taking action to physically come and get them.

Especially when they'd have to do this with up to 1/3 of the population of the country in the process.

As a risk assessment point of view, I rank that concern somewhat below most of the other risks in life at this point in time.

Barring some catastrophic event, they aren't going to start knocking on the doors of known and/or suspected gun owners and taking guns.

The risk is in using this data to coerce the populace into thinking gun ownership isn't worth the trouble by profiling your demographic and putting "gun owners" in a high risk category for insurance, healthcare, job app BGC's, credit, etc. etc. and so the theory goes, they'll end up with fewer and fewer gun owners and as a result, fewer and fewer pro2A voters.

Expect the ultimate "War on Guns" strategy to be more akin to the "War on Tobacco" than say the "War on Drugs".

Still believe they're safe?? I NEVER did... And now things are worse.

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This and then some!

tipoc said:

The programs in question began in the wake of 911 and are a part of the Patriot Act. Both the Bush and Obama administrations have used them. They have been debated in Congress a number of times. They are legal. A number of the particulars about them, however, were kept secret from the American people particularly the extent.

These are weapons the ruling class has in it's hands that they can use against who ever they care to. Their past conduct shows that they have done this many times. They have also been stopped from using them in the past.

tipoc

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It is interesting to see some of the folks on the news / radio outraged now, but not so much in the early 2000's. Political goggles similar to beer goggles???

I always assumed some clerk or intern somewhere was assigned to the task of reading my posts over the years and entering my odd comments about my firearms in a 50 X 200 table to save me the trouble of documenting them myself for insurance purposes.



Terry, 230RN

I would like to now extend my most sincere apologies.

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LOL, Apology accepted.

There is no question that a LOT of information is collected on us everyday. A huge amount, credit card purchases, e-mails, phone calls banking records, grocery store purchases, shoe purchases, sporting goods, big box stores, etc...

But the problem with all of this information is where do you store it. Storage cost money, the more you store the more money it costs to maintain it. It also takes up space, no I know it can be stored on electronic media, but that electronic media requires space on disk drives and all those drives require space as well. Most large information systems are already out of storage space or close to it. That means the the data has to be transferred to a more manageable media off line to most systems. And that media has to be stored.

What you get is trillion of bits of data that are totally useless and would take months if not years to put back into the system. Once it is back into the system then it is like looking for a needle in a haystack to find the one or two bits if info that you are looking at.

The firearms mfg must store info on the production of each gun, and to what distributor it is sold. The distributor must store to what FFL it was sold to, the store must store to whom the gun was sold to, the FBI must store the NCIS information on each of us and every criminal that was convicted of a felony.

Just how much information do you think they can store, year after year after year, and how easy do you think it is to retrieve?

As for me, let them keep storing more and more and more information, some day they will have to clean out the closets to make more room to store more useless information. Until you can put the Bible on a head of a pin (yes I know they can do that) I will not worry, and no I can not read the head of a pin, but someday we will all be reading the Bible electronically (I think they call it a Kindle).

Who cares till they start knocking on doors, and then all hell will break lose.
Jim

Since the dawn of the internet age, I've thought that just about all info is available to those with high level access.

MtnCreek said:

It is interesting to see some of the folks on the news / radio outraged now, but not so much in the early 2000's. Political goggles similar to beer goggles???

Click to expand...

They've finally gotten over their emotional reaction to 9/11, and the media itself was recently targeted by the DOJ, which compromised their rights (a stab in the back, as it were). Those in the media, on the whole, had trusted the government enough to give them a free pass to infringe on the rights of the people, but after the freedom of the press was directly attacked, perhaps some are now beginning to think somewhat critically and even suspect that big government may not be the panacea to the country's and the world's ills that they had been hoping for.

where is it being stored:

NSA building 860M data center
and another in UT

Govt has the money to store anything they want.

^read the cracked article yesterday and the Utah database has been around for a few years. Supposedly it has 20,000,000,000,000 phone calls, texts, emails, credit card purchases etc etc.. from everyone in the world.