Do you still believe that your gun related records are safe?

[12many]

IMO, They already have pretty much every gun registered to the owners and at least who owns guns based on web use, web search, telephone calls, e-mails, credit card use, voice recognition. When they call in for the background check, they have that recorded and digitized. Call or e-mail/text someone to meet someone to buy/sell a gun, NSA has that. These are just the facts.

I am dismayed by some of the comments. This is a rights violation regardless of which party does it and neither party is helping us out on these issues. And history shows they will come and take them if they want to, one by one, bit by bit. The US does not have magical pixy dust on it that prevents it from happening here so we should all be active politically to voice our opinion against this secret activity by NSA and other gov. entities.

It is great to catch terrorists, but there needs to be a warrant signed by a judge based probable cause. This is the digital equivalent of sneaking into your house at night or while you are at work and looking through all your stuff, cataloging everything, setting up some hidden cameras and microphone to continue the monitoring, and the going after you if something is not right. And they want it all to be secret. If we take away the Bible and the Constitution/Bill of Rights, which appears to be what is happening in Government, and I think we really have problems.

 

[Ryanxia]

That's why private sales are so essential to our Liberty and we must always fight tooth and nail for them.

 

[12many]

Yes, but still, if the buyer shops online for ammo or uses the credit card to buy ammo or talks about his gun on the phone, NSA will know. Don't use the phone or e-mail to set up the sale either. Seems like e-mails, phone, faxes, and texts, web surfing covers about everything. Maybe they don't care, maybe someday they will. Maybe someday someone will even try gun control or banning guns. Na, never happened (sarcasm).

After reading my own post I almost feel off the wall paranoid like someone is monitoring all my communications, Oh, but wait, they are. I would laugh if it was not true. That is kinda the joke right, the paranoid guy things someone is monitoring all his calls and e-mails and everyone thinks he is kinda crazy but now it sounds like it is really true.

So, are you crazy and now if you think no one is monitoring your calls and e-mails. Like, ya, that guy is kinda loopy, he actually thinks no one is monitoring his calls and e-mails and recording everything.

 

[X-Rap]

Virtually all the activism that attempts to throttle down government has some sort of digital basis either in motivation, communication or fund raising. All aspects of this are presently being monitored by those in gov who we are trying to restrain. Kind of the fox in the hen house scenario.

 

[12many]

I agree, and coupled with the action by the IRS that actively worked to stifle and put down political opposition based on the views of the group, it is even more concerning.

At one level the collecting of information is troubling, but there is an actual instance, (many in history looking back) of using data to put down political activity and political speech. It starts looking like these foreign countries we always make fun of and criticize.

 

[Roadking Rider]

No I never believed any records about me personally were ever safe. If the Gov't chose to they could find out more about me then I know about me. Being a veteran they already have my fingerprints. I'm sure if they wanted to monitor gun sites they could find out exactly what guns we own. Hell many of us put them in our signatures and gladly hand out that information for free.

 

[kyletx1911]

I have nothing to add, these two statements sum it all up!

this

 

[Certaindeaf]

All those guys buying and flipping ammo etc. are probably on some sort of watch list.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Private sales are also not very private, unless it's a sale between family or friends. The BATF has talked about having the ability to track even private sales via online ads, email and phone records, and even from VIDEO SURVEILLANCE TAKEN AT GUN SHOWS.

So that face-to-face in the Wal-Mart parking lot is probably not as private as you think, especially if you phoned or emailed the other party. The one that got me was the surveillance at gun shows. The "private sale" handshake exchange of cash for hardware was likely recorded by the Feds.

 

[marv]

My County cannot find my birth certificate, but I'll bet they could find records of handguns I registered fifty years ago.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Private sales are also not very private, unless it's a sale between family or friends. The BATF has talked about having the ability to track even private sales via online ads, email and phone records, and even from VIDEO SURVEILLANCE TAKEN AT GUN SHOWS.

So that face-to-face in the Wal-Mart parking lot is probably not as private as you think, especially if you phoned or emailed the other party. The one that got me was the surveillance at gun shows. The "private sale" handshake exchange of cash for hardware was likely recorded by the Feds.

But, handing over the money to a total stranger and walking away with the gun sure beats the heck out of filling ot a 4473.

 

[Miss Stana]

Remember the "Big brother is watching you" movies from the 50s, or the book, "Brave New World"? A lot of truth in that old 'entertainment'.

I have seen some bills introduced that would force FTF sales to go through an FFL.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I have seen some bills introduced that would force FTF sales to go through an FFL.

If it was up to the government every gun sale would be as involved as buying a full auto and every gun owner's name would be in a Washington data base.

 

[jim243]

Jim I used to feel the same way, not so much anymore.

X-Rap, I don't like it any more than you do. But unless you use just cash, there is no way to get away from it. If someone wants to know where I am at all they have to do is ping my cell phone number and GPS will tell them where I am at. (scary isn't it).

Jim

You may want to wrap your cell phone in tin foil. (LOL)

 

[0to60]

An interesting thing came up in IL a few years ago about this. In IL, we need FOID cards to buy guns (not own or operate, just buy). The IL State Police are the ones that issue the FOID cards. Well, the IL gov't in Springfield wanted the database of FOID card holders for some reason, so they asked the ISP to hand it over. The head of ISP looked through the IL constitution, couldn't find where it said the FOID db can be looked at by Springfield, and told them "no".

This went around and around in court for a while, and I never heard the outcome of the story, but from what I understand Springfield never got a hold of the database.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Is a FIOD like a license to carry a concealed handgun?

 

[Texan Scott]

No, it's a registration card. Firearms Owners IDentification card. So Big Brother knows who has what.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I was just trying to be cute. Well, as long as you can carry a pistol about. Ha, got you again.

 

[beatledog7]

And as government gathers all this data it says, "Trust us." Yeah, right.

They say they have to know all this because without knowing all this we can't have 100% security. Well, I ask, under what conditions then would you say we will have 100% security? We all know the answer--no such conditions can ever exist. Trying to achieve them can never succeed and will only curtail liberty. As my sig line says, I will gladly sacrifice a little bit of security to maintain my personal freedom.

Yeah, they know all about our firearms. They apparently know I'm typing this right now. They also know that for the moment if they come charging into our homes to try and confiscate our guns they'll hear the biggest public outcry ever uttered on this planet, and they'll be run out of office post haste.

If they thought they could get away with it, 90% of them would send their thugs door to door, demanding our guns, in the name of public safety, beginning today (well, on Monday). They're working toward that goal, and we must not ever believe otherwise until we've reversed the course of this behemoth.

 

[dogtown tom]

X-Rap Given the recent revelations in the governments communication surveillance of communications do you still believe that they aren't compiling gun data on its citizens?

What data?

If you mean the Form 4473:
"The government" doesn't get "data" sent to it. When you fill out a 4473 that stays at your dealer.

If you mean the FBI NICS background check:
"The government" only gets "Handgun", "Long Gun" or "Other" and the buyers information.............no serial number, no manufacturer name, no caliber, no model name.

Can you name another database that doesn't actually have ANY data?

X-Rap ....There are a lot of stores that are doing digital 4473's.

No information is sent to the government. The electronic 4473 is only form filling software...........it sends NOTHING to anyone.

mrvco ....Unless you only pay cash and only shop at mom and pop shops, then they don't need a 4473 to know that you own guns of at least a general type and caliber (e.g. data about purchases of ammo, holsters, optics, replacement parts, etc.).

Sorry, but "mom and pop shops" aren't magically exempt from Federal firearm laws. If they sell firearms they better have an FFL and sure as hell better have their customers filling out 4473's and NICS.

 

[orionengnr]

Barring some catastrophic event, they aren't going to start knocking on the doors of known and/or suspected gun owners and taking guns.

Well, you are dealing with the group that coined the statement "Never let a good crisis go to waste" and has been living by it ever since.

IMHO, we are never more than one day away from the "crisis" that will "justify" the next move.

 

[JohnBT]

"they aren't going to start knocking on the doors of known and/or suspected gun owners and taking guns."

They don't have time. They're too busy recovering all those Fast 'n Furious rifles they let escape to Mexico.

 

[we are not amused]

What data?

If you mean the Form 4473:
"The government" doesn't get "data" sent to it. When you fill out a 4473 that stays at your dealer.

Where it can be accessed by the government at any time for any reason, simply by asking to see the information.

If you mean the FBI NICS background check:
"The government" only gets "Handgun", "Long Gun" or "Other" and the buyers information.............no serial number, no manufacturer name, no caliber, no model name.

But it tells the government that you bought a gun on a certain day, and who from, which the government can then go to and get the serial number, manufacturer, caliber, model name... See above.

The Missouri State Police recently illegally released Concealed Carry License information to the Social Security Administration.

The Delaware State Police was caught keeping a secret illegal gun purchase database when it denied a woman who attempted to purchase a gun because "she was too old and a woman".

No prosecutions were made in either case, nor of the many other violations by various police organizations of legal privacy protections.

Now we have the IRS admitting it violated the rights of Tea Party and Patriot organizations, for political purposes. The (in)Justice Department of wire tapping news organizations, Fast and Furious....

The real question is, are there any sane and informed persons who still trust their Government?

 

[dogtown tom]

we are not amused Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
What data?

If you mean the Form 4473:
"The government" doesn't get "data" sent to it. When you fill out a 4473 that stays at your dealer.

Where it can be accessed by the government at any time for any reason, simply by asking to see the information.

Again, that isn't a database......not by a long shot.

 

[NormB]

I never have. I've posted about this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8936150&postcount=10

Since the MSP has the data stored electronically, I've always assumed it's in the hands of INTERPOL and any other alphabet agency that wants it.

"They" know who has guns. Turns out our CC and other online sales info has been downloaded through PRISM as well (I've been listening to the talk shows on this, it's not just Alex Jones or Glenn Beck saying this).

If some present or future tyrant wants to mine that data to figure out who has guns, reloading components, NFA parts, body armor, whatever, you think they'll have any problems doing so?