What is even going on with AK's these days?!

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goon

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So after a trip to the LGS today, there are about a dozen AR's on the rack and pretty reasonable prices. There are Pmags and Lancers and aluminum 30 round AR magazines available. I could have bought all the 5.56 or 9mm I could carry.
But there is also a WASR 10 on the rack for $799.

$799!
That's over two times what they should cost!


Is the situation the same where you are and what is driving this crazy AK price thing?
 
Everybody and their brother, uncle, nephew, and roommate's cousin once removed are all making AR-15s as fast as they can. Or have been for the last 8 months, anyway.

Not as many companies churning out AKs, and not at anything like the volume. So it's taking longer to fill the demand. Just be patient.
 
Over two and a half times? By what measure? The way things were a year ago?

That was then, and this is now. Inflation sucks. I don't think prices will revert to the back then time.
 
The semi-auto AK clones are priced at what enough people are willing to pay. Style is everything.
 
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Over two and a half times? By what measure? The way things were a year ago?
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Yep.
And to that, I've owned six AK's. They're OK. Some were better than others (but I do wish I'd kept the VEPR K .223). But when you get to $800... you're pricing me out of the AK market. They're just not worth it to me.

Guess I don't have a problem with the proliferation of AR's these days though. They're not perfect either, but the more there are the more we have for when we get the chance to make the "common use" argument.
 
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But it is a bummer they are out of my reach price wise, so I know what you mean.
 
I own an Arsenal SGL-21 which is the Cadillac of AKs (The milled Arsenal Bulgarian models are the Rolls Royce of AKs) and I bought mine a few years ago for $700. It is one of my favorite rifles but I would not imagine paying more than $1000 for it. So, IMHO the $800 WASR is absurd. However, it is supply and demand. They will go down but not to pre-panic prices.
 
Sounds like a bad dealer to me.... I know that the prices of AK's have gone up but I just picked up a new M10-762 with 3 - 30 round magazines included for 631.00 and that was here in Florida where everything gun related is typically priced high.
 
Eh... if you compare steel case to steel case, 5.56 isn't that much more expensive. I've seen Tula 55 grain locally for $5.97 -$6.97 today. 7.62x39 is a little cheaper than that, but only about 50 cents a box locally.

One of the AK's I owned was a milled Arsenal SAM7 back in the day. High quality is true, but even then... when you get to $1K I start looking for a used FAL or save a bit more for an M1A or just get a Colt 6920. So I'm also in the camp that thinks $1K for an AK is just too much.

I guess others will disagree... but if this is how prices are, the AR is only going to get more popular. Add in the crazy range of accessories, magazines, stocks of all varieties and the ability to customize your AR to your taste really leaves the AK in the dust.

Sounds like a bad dealer to me.... I know that the prices of AK's have gone up but I just picked up a new M10-762 with 3 - 30 round magazines included for 631.00 and that was here in Florida where everything gun related is typically priced high.
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That's possible, but the rest of their prices are just about average with everyone else. Maybe that's the only AK they could lay hands on. Or maybe they bought it during the panic at a high price and now are trying to get what they have in it. The same store had a couple of old thumbhole stock Century FAL's on the rack for years. They started there during the original AWB and stayed there after at the same $1100 price. I think one of them may still be there... and I passed it by about ten years ago for a new DSA at the same price.
 
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Even "American Made" AKs are mostly imported milsurp parts. The supply of which has, basically, gone dry.

Most of what came in was from former Warsaw Pact nations, Egypt, and Israel. The US hobby builder market swallowed everything they had without even a burp, both dewat kits and spare parts. There are still parts in China and Russia, but the Fed says we can't have them.

The infrastructure exists to create an AR from scratch; every part made in the USA, from multiple vendors. The AK market always depended on inexpensive imported parts. There's no reason someone couldn't tool up and build an American AK from scratch, or have it done in one of the countries the Fed isn't mad at this week, but so far nobody has laid out the money it would take to do it.
 
Crazy prices? Like $599 for an OPap Yugo? Or how about a Pap pistol for $349 at J&G sales? I don't understand why anyone would worry about an overpriced WASR, they are least among the parts kit AK type weapons.

One of the AK's I owned was a milled Arsenal SAM7 back in the day. High quality is true, but even then... when you get to $1K I start looking for a used FAL or save a bit more for an M1A or just get a Colt 6920. So I'm also in the camp that thinks $1K for an AK is just too much.
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I don't understand it. Guys shell out high dollar for the latest greatest AR rifles yet don't wanna pay a grand for a top of the line AK that will, aside from slightly less accuracy, perform as well or better as any of those high end ARs?
 
TRX said:
Even "American Made" AKs are mostly imported milsurp parts. The supply of which has, basically, gone dry.

Most of what came in was from former Warsaw Pact nations, Egypt, and Israel. The US hobby builder market swallowed everything they had without even a burp, both dewat kits and spare parts. There are still parts in China and Russia, but the Fed says we can't have them.

The infrastructure exists to create an AR from scratch; every part made in the USA, from multiple vendors. The AK market always depended on inexpensive imported parts. There's no reason someone couldn't tool up and build an American AK from scratch, or have it done in one of the countries the Fed isn't mad at this week, but so far nobody has laid out the money it would take to do it.
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I thought IO inc was building all American made ak47s from old Romanian or Bulgarian blue prints? I know their barrels are made by Mossberg.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.
 
Honestly, fellows? I have not seen a single semi-auto AK for sale that was not overpriced. Ever.
 
goon said:
Yep.
And to that, I've owned six AK's. They're OK. Some were better than others (but I do wish I'd kept the VEPR K .223). But when you get to $800... you're pricing me out of the AK market. They're just not worth it to me.

Guess I don't have a problem with the proliferation of AR's these days though. They're not perfect either, but the more there are the more we have for when we get the chance to make the "common use" argument.
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Where were you buying AKs for $300?
 
Where were you buying AKs for $300?
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I bought an SAR-1 a few years back for $269 and until recently, WASR's were running around the mid $300's to $400 locally.

I don't understand it. Guys shell out high dollar for the latest greatest AR rifles yet don't wanna pay a grand for a top of the line AK that will, aside from slightly less accuracy, perform as well or better as any of those high end ARs?
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I don't remember the exact price, but when I bought the Arsenal I owned they were nowhere near the prices that they are now.
I know... "but the inflation... we got all this inflation!"
That might explain higher prices in general, but it doesn't explain the cheapest AK ever made coming in just a few hundred bucks under the price of a new Colt M-4 knockoff.

Part of is that we know that AK's were designed to be stamped, pressed, and riveted into a functional rifle as cheaply as possible. Other designs like the AR and FAL use a lot of machining and that makes them more expensive to make... so you expect to pay more if you want one.
But with AK's it seems like such an obvious ripoff to pay that much for them.

It's like paying for prime rib when you know you're eating roadkill.

Granted, the milled versions do cost more to make. They're also usually very high quality, so it's more reasonable to pay more for one.

But the $800 WASR I saw yesterday? I think anyone who's ever owned one would agree that they're not worth $800.

After having owned half a dozen AK's, I'm not whining that I can't afford one. Truth is that I probably won't ever own another unless something really just impresses the heck out of me.
But... wow! Sticker shock!
 
goon said:
But the $800 WASR I saw yesterday? I think anyone who's ever owned one would agree that they're not worth $800.

After having owned half a dozen AK's, I'm not whining that I can't afford one. Truth is that I probably won't ever own another unless something really just impresses the heck out of me.
But... wow! Sticker shock!
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So, you saw one store with an overpriced WASR. That proves nothing other than you should find a better store.

As for the price of AK's in general, I don't see why you should expect them to be half the price of a decent AR. I understand your argument in regards to the receivers being stamped, but by the time you get in to the $1000 AK's, they're usually milled receivers anyway.
 
As with ammo, there is no "objective" price -- the market ALWAYS sets the price.

Just like M1903s that used to be $49 in the barrel at the local corner hardware store...that's not what they cost today.

I bought a MAK-90 back in the day for about $200...but the purchase price 20 years ago has no impact on the market value today.
 
I think ammo is a driving force in this case. Good 5.56 has been scarce for awhile now, but even in the bleakest days of January you could find tins of 5.45 and 7.62x39. So folks started getting interested in the comblock stuff, and since there's a pretty limited supply of those rifles vs. AR's, it didn't take long for prices to shoot up. Second tier imports with questionable barrels and canted sights started going for $500 or $600. Good AK builds by Arsenal and others are over a grand now.

Personally the ammo crisis caused me to get back into AK's for the first time in over a decade, and I do like them. Cheap ammo, surprisingly nice optics and that great ur-simple design.
 
Honestly, I never thought WASR's were that great of a value. They usually worked, but you had to watch out for canted sights and wobbly magazine wells. I also never liked how Century just welded the gas piston in instead of riveting it, and I didn't like Century's nasty FCG either. With all those things going on, I thought the WASR was overpriced for the quality you got even at around $350. I even saw one once with bark still on the buttstock... now that's some excellent quality control! To me, they were always kind of a crude "beater" AK.
Still, most of the guys who owned them seemed happy enough.
I realize value is subjective. Value is what someone will pay for it. But still...

Anyhow, I actually happened by again today to get some ammo. The manager tells me that demand was crazy during the panic and they sold everything off the rack, but this one was a replacement that showed up too late to get sold. The cost of this rifle was very high. I won't put the cost he told me in print (I believe him because he is my personal friend) but they'd make more selling you 3 boxes of ammo than they'll make if they sell that rifle.
He thinks prices are higher on AK's now because there are fewer parts kits available, but I haven't been in the AK game for awhile so I'm not sure what the story on parts kits is.
He also agreed that the price is too high on it... which is why it's not selling and why he hasn't ordered any more (his cost is still high as cyclopsshooter noted).

Anyhow, I guess that's what's going on with that AK.
 
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Cheap AKs were around $400 last summer. Maybe shading towards $439 or so but still in the $400 range while the cheapest ARs were in the $650 range.
Today I was in Walmart and they had a DPMS Sportical for $617, a Diamondback for $800+ and a Colt for $997 I think. I asked the guy and he said he hasn't sold an AR in a month.
LGS yesterday had almost $800 on the two AKs he has had for a month and hasn't been able to get more. Guy said they were overpriced and just sitting there. I don't know what they were because I didn't want to look at them up close.
Today Obama indicated that he would sign executive orders limiting re-importation of military weapons. We all know that is just a precursor to limit importation of "assault rifles".
 
goon said:
Honestly, I never thought WASR's were that great of a value. They usually worked, but you had to watch out for canted sights and wobbly magazine wells. I also never liked how Century just welded the gas piston in instead of riveting it, and I didn't like Century's nasty FCG either. With all those things going on, I thought the WASR was overpriced for the quality you got even at around $350. I even saw one once with bark still on the buttstock... now that's some excellent quality control! To me, they were always kind of a crude "beater" AK.
Still, most of the guys who owned them seemed happy enough.
I realize value is subjective. Value is what someone will pay for it. But still...

Anyhow, I actually happened by again today to get some ammo. The manager tells me that demand was crazy during the panic and they sold everything off the rack, but this one was a replacement that showed up too late to get sold. The cost of this rifle was very high. I won't put the cost he told me in print (I believe him because he is my personal friend) but they'd make more selling you 3 boxes of ammo than they'll make if they sell that rifle.
He thinks prices are higher on AK's now because there are fewer parts kits available, but I haven't been in the AK game for awhile so I'm not sure what the story on parts kits is.
He also agreed that the price is too high on it... which is why it's not selling and why he hasn't ordered any more (his cost is still high as cyclopsshooter noted).

Anyhow, I guess that's what's going on with that AK.
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if you have an AK with a wobbly mag well you can get a good size C-clamp and squeeze the receiver together a little. I did it with my wasr and you would not believe the pressure it took to move it very little, very strong receiver. I have a saiga and it has the pressed recesses to secure the mag where the wasr they weld pieces inside and the mag wobbled the same as the saiga
 
Seems to me that there is about a 2-300 dollar premium on the low end ak rifles right now. I have my third ever milled bulgarian on its way, and if its as accurate as my first one its worth every penny.
 
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