AK-47 clone with scope

[strat81]

I think I'd have an easier time picking players for a Fantasy Curling league. Too many damn choices with AK clones! Here is the list of features I want:

-Scope mount. I know the AK-47 is not a "sniper rifle" and that it's rather mall ninja of me to do so. Who cares! I want the ability to mount a scope on the darn thing. I'd probably be using it from 5-200yds max. What about non-integrated mounts or rails? If I can slap a $30 piece of machined aluminum onto the side of a WASR and call it a day, fine. Nickel-sized groups aren't necessary, but I'd at least like it to resemble a group.

-Wood furniture. I prefer the look, makes me think of "real" AKs. A vertical foregrip would be nice too, but not required.

-High capacity. They're legal in my state and I want to be able to cram as much ammo in there as possible.

-5.56 or 7.62. I'm not married to either, but I'm leaning towards 5.56 "just in case". (Paranoid? What, me worry?) I don't want 5.45 because of availability. I reload, if that matters.

So, what are my choices? Of course, I want to pay zero dollars for it. Realistically, I don't want to pay more than $500. I have never held an AK, let alone shot one. The mall ninja in me wants one because I can. If such a beast is not available off the rack, would parts would I need to convert a Saiga, WASR, or Yugo? (These seem to be the most common in my limited research.) Thanks in advance!



Search terms: AK AK-47 AK47 AK-74 AK74 AKM clone scope mount mounts rail mall ninja sniper

 

[HorseSoldier]

Scope mount.

I'd say go with one of the actual Russian side mounts. You can buy AKs with it already fitted, or have one put on by a gunsmith pretty easily (or DIY).

With that mount, you can then put on various actual Soviet/Russian optics, including telescopic sights, their red dot equivalents of the EOTech and AimPoint, etc.

Wood furniture. I prefer the look, makes me think of "real" AKs. A vertical foregrip would be nice too, but not required.

If you hunt around, I suspect you can find an AKM style wooden vertical foregrip. I think Tantal may have them in stock, as well as assorted Russian optics, the scope mount I mentioned above and other stuff AK-related.

5.56 or 7.62. I'm not married to either, but I'm leaning towards 5.56 "just in case". (Paranoid? What, me worry?) I don't want 5.45 because of availability. I reload, if that matters.

I don't have any experience with 5.56mm AKs, but my understanding is that they do not use standardized magazines like 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 guns, which can make for issues finding the mags and/or paying more for them.

Otherwise, I'd say 5.56mm is the better choice. Lighter, plenty of thump for an assault rifle, etc. I'm personally a fan of 5.45x39 in an AK platform, but the ammo is a little harder to find than 7.62x39, I guess.

So, what are my choices? Of course, I want to pay zero dollars for it. Realistically, I don't want to pay more than $500. I have never held an AK, let alone shot one. The mall ninja in me wants one because I can. If such a beast is not available off the rack, would parts would I need to convert a Saiga, WASR, or Yugo? (These seem to be the most common in my limited research.) Thanks in advance!

The Yugo is near the top of your price range, at least the underfolders. The fixed stock ones are probably a bit less and you might get one for under $500.

As-imported-Saigas (i.e. sporterized) are pretty cheap (you could probably get two of them without going over your $500 budget), but you would need to return them to AK sort of configuration. Correia here on THR can probably tell you everything you need to know about converting a sporterized Saiga back to an AK sort of configuration.

The Romanians are economically priced and seem to work. They're kind of lacking in the elegance department, but that was never the AK's strong suit anyway.

 

[The Good]

great thing about aks is there is so many accessories available. dont wory about accessories, buy the AK you want, then start accessory shopping. you wont have a problem customizing it to exactly what you want.

 

[lee n. field]

I reload, if that matters.

What I read (Internet gunboard hearsay, YMMV) is that AKs beat up brass pretty badly, and that reloading for them is therefore iffy.

I'd love it too, to trade off my Mini-14 for a .223 AK that I could handload for, and (unlike the Mini) get parts for. Doesn't look like it's going to happen.

 

[mpmarty]

I've got three of them, a 5.45 Arsenal, a .308 saiga and a 5.56 Saiga. The .308 is converted with muzzle brake, pistol grip, G2 trigger, and I got ten of those great FBMG twenty round magazines. None of my AKs beat up brass and only the 5.45x39 tosses it into the next county the other two drop the brass a bit to the right and in front of my firing position. The Arsenal was spendy and my first AK the Saigas are better in my opinion in both value and quality although there is nothing really wrong with the Arsenal.

 

[MD_Willington]

Promag makes a .223 Bulgarian knock off and they work, you can also get a Orlite 35 rounder that will work with a bit of filing on the front of the magazine.

Those work pretty good for a Saiga that is converted, Red Jacket firearms has converted .223 Saigas for ~ 590, & can add a Galil M16 magazine adaptor to it and then you can use AR15/M16 magazines with your AKM pattern rifle.

 

[benEzra]

-Scope mount. I know the AK-47 is not a "sniper rifle" and that it's rather mall ninja of me to do so. Who cares! I want the ability to mount a scope on the darn thing. I'd probably be using it from 5-200yds max. What about non-integrated mounts or rails? If I can slap a $30 piece of machined aluminum onto the side of a WASR and call it a day, fine. Nickel-sized groups aren't necessary, but I'd at least like it to resemble a group.

Romanian AK lookalikes (SAR and WASR), Russian Vepr's and Saigas, and such all come with a little metal rail on the left side of the receiver that fits a variety of quality eastern european optics.

Here's a SAR-1 with a POSP 4x24 scope (rangefinding illuminated reticle, multiple aiming chevrons, crystal-clear optics):

I liked the POSP, but I wanted something that was also usable at closer ranges, so I sold it and bought a Kobra, which is an unmagnified heads-up optic.

Closeup of the sight:

Those are elevation and windage wheels on the left and right side; the rocker switch is the brightness adjustment, the small button ahead of it is the reticle selector (dot, chevron, dot plus chevron, or T-bar), and the rotary switch at the right front is the on/off switch.

The optic makes a big difference in how well I shoot the rifle, as the AK's short sight radius makes it a challenging rifle to shoot well, especially with glasses.

-Wood furniture. I prefer the look, makes me think of "real" AKs. A vertical foregrip would be nice too, but not required.

Vertical foregrips are nifty, but are IMHO problematic on AK's because the AK mag has to rock forward to clear the magazine catch, and a foregrip can really get in the way when changing the magazine. You can always use the mag itself as a vertical grip, anyway.

-High capacity. They're legal in my state and I want to be able to cram as much ammo in there as possible.

There's also the consideration that the single-stack AK mags have a reputation for less than stellar reliability, whether deserved or not.

I really like the standard, ubiquitous 30-rounders, and for range sessions I often use the Hungarian 20-round tanker magazines (that's one in the Kobra photo above).

-5.56 or 7.62. I'm not married to either, but I'm leaning towards 5.56 "just in case". (Paranoid? What, me worry?) I don't want 5.45 because of availability. I reload, if that matters.

5.56 is a better caliber if your primary interest is HD, as there is a wider selection of bullet styles available, particularly fragile/frangible JHP's, and 5.56 AK's may be more accurate; the downside is that good 5.56 mags for AK's are scarce and expensive. 7.62x39 is a little more versatile (you can hunt with it, as it's roughly comparable to .30-30 Winchester), and good 7.62x39 mags are far easier to come by, but there are fewer good HD choices (Cor-Bon's 125-gr JHP is great, but pricey), and 7.62 AK's are considered less accurate than the smallbores. I've shot 2.5MOA groups with mine, but 4 MOA is more common (still better than my mini-14, though). 7.62x39 also recoils a little more, and the skinny little buttplate makes it seem a little sharper than it is, but it's still mild by centerfire rifle standards.

So, what are my choices? Of course, I want to pay zero dollars for it. Realistically, I don't want to pay more than $500. I have never held an AK, let alone shot one. The mall ninja in me wants one because I can. If such a beast is not available off the rack, would parts would I need to convert a Saiga, WASR, or Yugo? (These seem to be the most common in my limited research.) Thanks in advance!

For $500, I'd hand-select a Romanian (SAR or WASR-GP), $350-$400, and spend the rest on ammunition and good magazines. A Kobra will run about $180, if you ever choose to go that route; a POSP goes for $100 or so but is IMHO less versatile. If you get an older SAR, you might want to chip in a few extra bucks and have a Tapco G2 trigger group installed (the WASR-GP comes with the G2 trigger, I think).

The higher-end AK's definitely have better fit and finish, but they won't necessarily work better.

 

[strat81]

Thanks for the responses so far. I think I'm going to go the 7.62 route since the 5.56 guns seem to be slightly less reliable, mags are less plentiful, and good mags are pricey. The Saiga looks great (haven't read a bad thing about them) but I don't want a sporter right now. Maybe for the next gun (after the m1903, m1 carbine, and SKS).

Benezra, great pics! I've heard about the left side rail, but apparently not all AKs have them. Could you get a pic of your AK with the left rail and the optic installed? A quick search at cheaperthandirt.com turned up a bunch of cheap scopes and such for the AK.

Right now, I'm thinking of a GP-WASR or a Lancaster Consulting AK.

 

[pipboy]

you want a 7.62
mags for the 5.56 are more rare and much more$$$$$$
sorry i cant help with the scope/mount, i was wondering how the scopes for the psl and drag hold up on an ak, i forget what they are called they go for 150ish i think

 

[wally]

I really like the PSOP scopes, they are about the only scopes where I can still focus on the reticle without my reading glasses (presbyoptia )

What also impresses me about the Russian system is I've had this scope on four different AK variants (7.62x39 Saiga & Romanian), .223 Saiga, 7 .308Saiga) and starting at 0 0 dial settings none have required more that 3 or 4 clicks to be centered at 50 yards, all initial shots were on an 8" pie plate.

--wally.

 

[benEzra]

Benezra, great pics! I've heard about the left side rail, but apparently not all AKs have them. Could you get a pic of your AK with the left rail and the optic installed? A quick search at cheaperthandirt.com turned up a bunch of cheap scopes and such for the AK.

Thanks!

I don't have any photos of the left side handy at the moment, but I'll try to take some in the near future.

I did find these photos on Tantal's web site (I bought my Kobra from him, and he is GREAT).

http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstkobra.html

Different varieties of Kobra. Mine is the coin-cell version (EKP-8-02) at the top right. The bulkier one on the left is the AA-powered version.

Reverse side.

EKP-8-02 attached to the rifle. You can see the mounting rail in this photo (it's the part that's riveted to the receiver, and sticks out in front of the optic riser a little). The lever at the bottom is the locking lever; forward is locked, flip it to the rear to unlock and slide the sight off the rail to the rear.

 

[TOU]

you want a 7.62
mags for the 5.56 are more rare and much more$$$$$$

So exactly how much are these mags going for?

Thx!

 

[MudPuppy]

Get a bulgarian milled in 7.62 with Ironwood Designs stock set. It'll set you back about $600.

If you do go the .223 route, the saiga mags are more expensive and not interchangeable (easily at least). I'd recommend a SAR-3 (watch for potential canted sights) or maybe a BWK-22 (I think that's the name of the chinese 223)--expect to pay about $4-500 for those.

For standard .223 (or i guess more accurately, 5.56) mags, bulgarians are available for about $25 each. Promag makes a version for $15 (can't comment to the functionality of those--i've got one that locks up nice in my Yugo M95, but not fired it yet...).

While not all AKs have side rails, they're only $25 or so and pretty easy to install if you pay attention to detail. You can also get a top rail that replaces the rear sight and attaches to the trunnion screws (I don't mean the inprecise top cover replacement...this rail is a Beryl type I think?? Anyhow, locks up tight, its pricier than a $15 top cover replacement, more like $80ish, ircc).

Anyhow, you could talk about this for hours and not say anthing that hasn't been said a million times before--do a little digging, lots of info out there.

Oh, about the galil adapters on AKs--now that I can compare my galil side to side with an ak, I don't see those easily fitting. I guess it can be made to work, but doesn't look to be a drop in to me (but admittedly and WAG'ing on that issue.)

 

[BADUNAME13]

You want this set up:



Do a search for my posts on Tactical Response.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

I have a WASR-3 5.56 with a 4x6 TIP2 scope and it does enough justice for me

The SAR1/WASR3 mags are a tad spendy especially from local vendors/shops. Ordering them directly from Century seems like a good option compared to what alot of other sites sell them for. And they dont interchange from different clones unlike the 7.62x39.

And mine has some good wood, I refinished it with an American Cherry stain