New 308 with old brass question
- Thread starter Big JJ
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I don't pick up the gun until Mon.
They are recommended loads from the bullet company's set to acceptable fps/pressures and they shoot great out of my old gun.
My concern is the head space may be unacceptable on the new gun and cause a problem with the gun.
A reloading expert told me that if I chambered without forcing the rounds in and without it be too loose when I close the bolt it will probably be fine.
What do you think?
They are recommended loads from the bullet company's set to acceptable fps/pressures and they shoot great out of my old gun.
My concern is the head space may be unacceptable on the new gun and cause a problem with the gun.
A reloading expert told me that if I chambered without forcing the rounds in and without it be too loose when I close the bolt it will probably be fine.
What do you think?
plmitch
Member
They should be fine. If you are worried pull them down, resize with full length dies and reload them. It would only take a few minutes to fix.
MtnCreek
Member
What's your charge weight compared to published max? Is your bullet seated deep enough to be off the rifling when chamber?
If you're a grain or two below max, with a bullet seated to not touch the rifling I would shoot it.
If you're at or very near max and the bullet seated to not touch the rifling, I would work up to that charge weight with other brass before shooting them.
Odds are probably 50/50 of it chambering.
The difference in chambers will be the key. Unless you have a very short chamber, and the new is is very long, headspace likely won't be an issue. The only way to tell is to try them in the new gun. Even if yours is SAMMI minimum and the new one is SAMMI max, it will be safe enough to shoot one and get a measurement on the shoulder compared to what it was. That scenario is unlikely though.
Safe to try? Yes
Fit? Time will tell.
Safe to try? Yes
Fit? Time will tell.
BigJJ, This is a reloading forum, I will assume you reload, you have fired a lot of 308W ammo in your old rifle/gun, being a reloader I will assume you have sized all of your 308 W cases fired in your old gun/rifle.
There are philosophies about reloading and sizing, some insist on full length sizing to return to the case to minimum length, I choose to cut down on case travel, I size the case to the chamber. Problem, while reloading for your old gun/rifle it would appear you never measured the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case, meaning you do not know the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the head of the case, nor do you know the length of the chamber.
Back to philosophies, if a philosophy is no more than what one thinks, I would suggest you take the time to develop skills that would enable you to measure the length of a chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face without firing it. this technique would allow you to determine the length of your ammo you loaded for your old gun/rifle from the shoulder to the head of the case then compare the length of the ammo with the chamber in your new rifle.
Question, is this rifle/gun new or new to you as in, are you purchasing this rifle used?
There is no shortage of threads about ammo being fired in a machine gun, ammo fired in a machine gun makes my life easier, machine gun fired ammo will not chamber because it is too large in diameter and because of being pulled from the chamber is too long. A case fired in a machine gun is like a case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber. To chamber the machine gun fired case most believe the case must be restored to minimum length/full length sized. I don't, I adjust the die while sizing, I continue to adjust until the case will chamber, before the case will chamber the bolt will close with resistance. After the case chamber I measure the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die.
After sizing the case I have no obligation to load the case, the machine gun fired case/case fired in a trashy old chamber has served its purpose, I use the case as a tool to determine the length of the chamber, with tools that are used as comparators the reloader can compare the length of a case before firing and again after, they can also measure the length of the case after firing and again after sizing. And always from the usual places, not from the case mouth to the case head but from the shoulder/datum to the case head.
Case length
There are philosophies about reloading and sizing, some insist on full length sizing to return to the case to minimum length, I choose to cut down on case travel, I size the case to the chamber. Problem, while reloading for your old gun/rifle it would appear you never measured the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case, meaning you do not know the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the head of the case, nor do you know the length of the chamber.
Back to philosophies, if a philosophy is no more than what one thinks, I would suggest you take the time to develop skills that would enable you to measure the length of a chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face without firing it. this technique would allow you to determine the length of your ammo you loaded for your old gun/rifle from the shoulder to the head of the case then compare the length of the ammo with the chamber in your new rifle.
Question, is this rifle/gun new or new to you as in, are you purchasing this rifle used?
There is no shortage of threads about ammo being fired in a machine gun, ammo fired in a machine gun makes my life easier, machine gun fired ammo will not chamber because it is too large in diameter and because of being pulled from the chamber is too long. A case fired in a machine gun is like a case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber. To chamber the machine gun fired case most believe the case must be restored to minimum length/full length sized. I don't, I adjust the die while sizing, I continue to adjust until the case will chamber, before the case will chamber the bolt will close with resistance. After the case chamber I measure the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die.
After sizing the case I have no obligation to load the case, the machine gun fired case/case fired in a trashy old chamber has served its purpose, I use the case as a tool to determine the length of the chamber, with tools that are used as comparators the reloader can compare the length of a case before firing and again after, they can also measure the length of the case after firing and again after sizing. And always from the usual places, not from the case mouth to the case head but from the shoulder/datum to the case head.
Case length
There are case length gages, a case length gage is not a chamber gage, meaning necked sized cases can be checked for length from the shoulder to the head of the case but the diameter of the case/body does not touch the case length gage.
I would suggest you pull the bullets on a few cases to use for test cases, remember, when sizing a case the diameter of the case body is reduced, when the case body diameter is reduced the shoulder of the case moves forward, there is a benefit, like the cases fired in a trashy old chamber or the case fired in a machine gun the reloader can control the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case by adjusting the die. Adjusting the die is not an obsession, adjusting the die is necessary to determine the length of the chamber, after the length is known the reloaders can secure the die to the press, unless they are sizing multiple fired cases.
The resistance to being sized increases when a case is fired over and over etc..
A case length gage can be modified/converted to a chamber gage.
F. Guffey
I would suggest you pull the bullets on a few cases to use for test cases, remember, when sizing a case the diameter of the case body is reduced, when the case body diameter is reduced the shoulder of the case moves forward, there is a benefit, like the cases fired in a trashy old chamber or the case fired in a machine gun the reloader can control the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case by adjusting the die. Adjusting the die is not an obsession, adjusting the die is necessary to determine the length of the chamber, after the length is known the reloaders can secure the die to the press, unless they are sizing multiple fired cases.
The resistance to being sized increases when a case is fired over and over etc..
A case length gage can be modified/converted to a chamber gage.
F. Guffey
Fguffey
You are correct I have never measured the shoulder case measure that you ask about.
I am aware of those numbers but never really needed to use them because this is only there second loading and they chamber fine in the old gun and shot well in the old gun.
They have never been fired in any other gun.
I always measure the overall case length and trim accordingly.
I am just really asking if I can take a short cut and get away with it without pulling the bullets.
If they do shoot OK I am assuming they will then be fire formed to the new gun.
You are correct I have never measured the shoulder case measure that you ask about.
I am aware of those numbers but never really needed to use them because this is only there second loading and they chamber fine in the old gun and shot well in the old gun.
They have never been fired in any other gun.
I always measure the overall case length and trim accordingly.
I am just really asking if I can take a short cut and get away with it without pulling the bullets.
If they do shoot OK I am assuming they will then be fire formed to the new gun.
You need to check how far off the lands the bullet in the completed cartridge from the old rifle is when chambered in the new rifle. If the bullet is against the lands with the new rifle, then I would develop loads from scratch for the new rifle. The old rounds may not be safe even if they chamber ok in the new rifle.
If the load is near max, I would pull them, FL resize and rework up. The barrel and bullet fit will have a bit different pressure relationship compared to your old rifle. So if you are at or near book max, not a lot of margin for error.
If not, if the rounds chamber ok, and the bullets are not jammed into the lands, I wouldn't be worried about safety.
Now if it were me, with components being scarce, I'd pull them and start over with FL resizing. I'd want to set the proper COL for the new rifle and so forth.
Congrats on the new rifle.
If not, if the rounds chamber ok, and the bullets are not jammed into the lands, I wouldn't be worried about safety.
Now if it were me, with components being scarce, I'd pull them and start over with FL resizing. I'd want to set the proper COL for the new rifle and so forth.
Congrats on the new rifle.
Team
I regard this group as some of the best reloaders in the US.
However we are all over the map on this questions.
It is obvious to me that there is no easy answer to this question.
Because I don't have enough experience with this issue of going from one rifle to another I am going to pull the bullets and FL resize them.
I am erroring on the side of safety.
Thank you all for sharing your opinions on this topic.
I regard this group as some of the best reloaders in the US.
However we are all over the map on this questions.
It is obvious to me that there is no easy answer to this question.
Because I don't have enough experience with this issue of going from one rifle to another I am going to pull the bullets and FL resize them.
I am erroring on the side of safety.
Thank you all for sharing your opinions on this topic.
plmitch
Member
There you go, smart move.
gamestalker
member
If you shoot brass that is head spaced to fit in one gun, but if other chamber is more than a couple thou larger, and considering the brass has been loaded a few times, you might encounter a separation when it stretches.
GS
GS
savanahsdad
Member
I always run a new box of factory ammo in any new gun , then if something isn't right I know it's not my loads, plus then you have 20 new once fired brass cases to reload, , if I were you, I'd get a box of 308win. shoot them, then reload them the same way you are loading for your old gun , now take your new reloads and check them to your old loads, you just may fine that there the same or so close that there safe , and you will know how your new gun shoots with factory ammo , I wouldn't pull the old reloads apart , lot of work that you may not need to do , are you keeping the old gun ? how many rounds do you have loaded for it ?
Big JJ, I would suggest you measure the new ammo before firing, then again after. --deleted-- I want to know the dimensions of new minimum length/full length sized ammo.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/307 Winchester.pdf
The difference in length between your new ammo and fired ammo should indicate the difference in length between minimum length ammo and the chamber when measured from the usual places. In the perfect world a reloader wants between .003" and .005" difference in length.
F. Guffey
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/307 Winchester.pdf
The difference in length between your new ammo and fired ammo should indicate the difference in length between minimum length ammo and the chamber when measured from the usual places. In the perfect world a reloader wants between .003" and .005" difference in length.
F. Guffey
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witchhunter
Member
Maybe don't pull all of em, yet.....I say wait and try one out. Have you considered buying some new brass, maybe a different headstamp and keep them separate from your old brass? When I buy a new rifle, I buy a new die set too. I use a different brand of brass for each one, just like buying a different caliber. I have two .223 rifles, one has 500 dedicated rem brass, the other one has Winnie, two die sets, one neck die and one Redding micrometer seater. The two FL dies are set to each chamber, I usually neck size both with the same die, and I have one seater set for one and the micro seater for the other one. I can do load workups with it but I keep it set for the Winnie brass.
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