Stainless Steel Tumbling Still Have Black Residue In Primer Pocket

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AshesOfTheFall

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After watching some videos and reading a lot of forums, I bought the 6lb double-barrel tumbler from Harbor Freight, a few lbs of .047 diameter pins, some Dawn dish soap and some lemi-shine. I'm cleaning .357 magnum (and .38 special) brass. I'm using 1lb of pins, 1lb of water (enough to cover all the brass and pins), just a few drops of dawn, and a finger pinch of lemi-shine. I've tried varying loads of brass under 1lb (50-100 brass). I've tried varying lengths of time (1.5 to 9 hours) and no matter what combo I tried I'm still ending up with some black gunk left in many of the primer pockets and often some gray buildup around the extractor groove. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? I think I saw a video or post somewhere suggesting that smooth walled drum tumblers don't get enough agitation for pin movement and that you want some edges (like a dryer drum or a cement mixer) or a hexagon shape like the big thumbler tumblers. Somewhere they mentioned modifying barrels by somehow attaching "fins" inside the barrel. I haven't been able to find this info again but I'm wondering if anyone has tried something similar and what they got for results. At this point I'm tempted to switching over to the harbor freight ultrasonic cleaner and see if that works better.

I forgot to mention that when I clean 9mm and .40 S&W brass with the same setup, it turns out great. For some reason the .38 special and .357 magnum aren't coming as clean...
 
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If 9mm & 40 S&W brass comes clean to your satisfaction then, in regards to your 38 Special Cases, there must be something about the brass or the primer components that resist your efforts. For instance, if the interior of the primer pockets was rougher, it would be harder to clean them.

Not that I think it would necessairly make any difference but why are you only using "a few drops" of Dawn detergent?

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think there is any good evidence that cleaning primer pockets makes ANY difference in the accuracy department. I use stainless steel pins because I like pretty brass and am not under the delusion that it makes much difference in regards to function for most people.
 
I read on Stainless Tumbling Media's website that you want to use .041 stainless pins unless you do alot of .223/5.56 brass. That and the smooth wall drum is probally most of the problem.
 
So long as there isn't clumps of junk in the primer pockets, just load em. It really isn't a big deal.

I've used ultra sonic cleaners before and they work well, but too much hassle for me. Corn cob media in a tumbler has worked for me for years and I'm not OCD enough to worry about super clean brass.
 
Clarificaiton

To clarify, the 6lb capacity is achieved through 2 separate drums with 3lb capacity each. So each is 1/5th the capacity of the Thumbler's Tumbler and I've been cutting the quantities in the instructions in 1/5th so 1lb of pins per drum. I have tried using up to a teaspoon of Dawn.

Here's a link to the tumbler:
http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html

Here's a link to the pins I bought (I got 3.3lbs total - 1lb for each drum and 1lb spare for replacements)
http://shop.bestbyte.net/1-lb-047x-255-in-stainless-steel-pellet-pins-tumbling-media.html

Here are links to videos I watched to figure out the process:
http://youtu.be/_JHWJGtZqIY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geAU6HLfi7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_oZ-dSX0Ko
 
The portions of water and detergent seem a little low. A pound of water is only a pint; if that's all the individual drums will hold, fine, but I'd fill them up within about a half-inch of the brim; if you're slightly over the weight limit for the drum, it's not going to matter much. Also, I'd use at least a teaspoon of Dawn every time, especial with the increase in water. (The standard for the larger Thumler's drum is one tablespoon.)

Another issue is one you can't do much about: the length of the cases vs. the size of the drums. Notice that it's the longer cases that aren't getting quite as clean? They're a little long to be able to freely agitate in the small drums, especially if you're only using a pint of water. I'd bet if you did smaller batches, combined with more water and detergent, they might have more of a chance of to agitate so that the pins reach into every nook and cranny.

A third possible issue is rotation speed: with the high-speed Thumlers, four to five hours will clean even the nastiest range pickups to absolute brilliance. If your tumbler rotates more slowly, the nine-hour tumble time might not be excessive.

To give you a point of comparison, in the larger Thumlers drum, using the accepted recipe of five pounds of pins, one tbsp. of Dawn, a quarter tsp. of LemiShine, and water to within an inch of the rim, I can clean 150 30-06 cases, and the primer pockets and interiors end up absolutely pristine.
 
Thanks!

Very good points everyone. Thanks for all the input. I'll try filling with more water and keeping the Dawn up to at least 1 tsp in my next batches and see how it goes. I'm also going to see about borrowing 1lb of pins from a buddy with the .041 pins from StainlessTumblingMedia.com to see if that makes any difference. There are also some videos for "speeding up" this model of tumbler by adding tape to the rollers to make the pads thicker thus increasing the revolutions per minute. If neither of the ideas work I'll give that a go. I may also add a few lines of silicon sealant evenly spaced around the inside of one of the drums as suggested in another forum. I'll try each idea individually before combining and cross my fingers. Hopefully one of the ideas will put my OCD need for shinny pockets at ease ;)

I know there's no actual impact to my loads as they're still cleaner than when I just scrape them with my Lee hand tool. I also recognize that tumbling in general is not needed for pistol reloading and that I could simply wipe them down by hand and clean the pockets by hand when fouled but darn it, I really like to see those puppies shine clean when I'm looking at them under a magnifying lens before reloading again. Yeah, yeah, I have a problem with over the top attention to detail :neener:
 
Ditch all that silliness and just get a common vibratory tumbler. Tumble with 1420 cc, perhaps mixed 50/50 with walnut. Add a couple of capfuls of Nufinish.

Don't decap prior to tumbling. If you continue to fret over having a little soot in the primer pockets, I'd recommend a few doses of Paxil and a few psychotherapy sessions for that OCD. :evil:
 
In my experience, it is hit-and-miss with respect to which primer pockets end up shiny and clean or which end up with a little residue left in them.

My hunch is that it has to do with the type of primer fired in there, but it may be something else.
 
By the way, welcome to the world of wet stainless tumbling. As you are finding out, it is not possible to start a thread about this subject without some poor souls feeling the need to chime in with a little Oprah-caliber junior psychology, letting you know that the reason their brass is not as clean as yours is because they're not "OCD", and, of course, you are.

This bothers them tremendously, which adds a whole new dimension of satisfaction to the process.;)

The idea that dull brass is somehow an indicator of mental health is an interesting, if bizarre, phenomenon.
 
I us the same setup. Also, I see some primer pockets that have a residue remaining. Some calibers, like 30.06, end up with spotless primer pockets,but some of the pistol calibers don't always end up spotless. You know what? It doesn't seem to have any impact on accuracy.

I believe that the stainless pin method of cleaning is easier and better. I wouldn't go back to the walnut dust and noise.

Just load your primers and shoot them. It is not a problem.
 
i'm new to reloading and have the same set up for cleaning brass. my stainless steel pins are from midway but seems the same as any ss media. I'm cleaning mostly .40 and various range brass from .380 to 30-06. i tumble for roughly 4-5 hours and the primer pockets come fairly clean. (about 90-95% clean)

try this:
1. soak the brass in water prior to tumbling
2. take off the cover of the tumbler and tighten the belt (you will get more speed)
3. change the water after about two hours.
4. lighten your brass load (too heavy will reduce the speed and media action)
 
"(The standard for the larger Thumler's drum is one tablespoon.)"
Click to expand...

If you read the instructions they call for 2-Tablespoons of Dawn and 1/4-teaspoon of Lemishine for the larger Thumblers. Filled with water to within 1" of the top rim.
Keep these ratios and I think you'll be surprised.

Joe's
 
Joe: I have seen a single tablespoon of Dawn recommended on a lot of sites. I went ahead and tried it, and found it just as effective. An added advantage is that rinsing becomes quite a bit faster and easier. I guess it all boils down to how grimy the brass is.
 
The SS pins I have are not cut flat. Rather they are cut at an angle and clean better than some of the other brands. It took about 3 cleaning cycles to get them working at top efficiency. After they are broken in they work beautifully. Also the poster who explained that the pins need some agitation (tumbling) is correct. The Thumlers 6 sided motion is the best formula I have personally used. YMMV

I use a small amount of water (1 to 2 cups) a squirt of Dawn and a 45 ACP brass full of LemmiShine dishwasher cleaner for best results on my brass in the Thumlers.
 
.45 ACP brass plunk test question

I have run into a problem. I was plunk testing my rounds. I had 4 rounds that would not plunk. Its all Winchester brass. My COL is plunking good at 1.255. But these 4 would not go. So I decided I would shorten my COL as a test just to see. I went all way down to like 1.238 and they still wont go. I measured case mouth to be.471 and rim was same. Its only with Winchester brass. Anybody else run into this problem?
 
I also use the Harbor Freight tumbler. I think the max amount of cases in each drum is 25-30. Run it overnight. I've also read that the water quality is a key for the shiniest brass. Distilled water leaves no impurities on the brass. If you use unusually hard water or highly alkaline or acidic water, it may affect the final appearance. I like to run the loaded rounds thru a corn cob media with some NuShine in it for that new ammo look. There are lots of OCD reloaders out there!
 
All good advice. I would try a bit less brass and more water. I can do 25 270 cases in the same drum your using. I would have to call them 95% clean after 5 or so hrs. Always seem to have a few black spots left in some of the pockets. A Q-tip will finish the pockets nicely if you want to go that far. Do that right out of the wash. But I'm not showing them off I'm gonna load and dirty them again.
My cleanest load came when I let it run over night once. Ran about 15 hrs. ( I really just forgot about it) Talk about shinny!
Recipe I follow is close to OP. 1 or 2 drops of dawn, big pinch of lemi shine. I use bottled water as we're on a well here.
 
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