I'm new to wet tumbling..questions

[tcoz]

So after many years I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and switch from dry to wet tumbling with a Frankford Arsenal Lite tumbler. I have two questions. First, I'm going to use a few drops of Dawn and some Lemi Shine but I've seen the quantity of Lemi Shine to use vary from 1/8 teaspoonful to multiple teaspoonsful. The drum is only one gallon and I was planning to add one 9mm caseful of Lemi Shine. Does that sound about right?

Second and more importantly, I clean my brass first thing before sizing and then after sizing I've always tumbled it for another half hour to remove the excess lube. Rather than going through the entire wet tumbling process again, do most of you just wipe the cases down after resizing, do you throw it back into the tumbler for a while without any additives or do you have some other good way of removing the lube? I use Imperial case lube

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I use about 1/4 teaspoon of lemishine. I pour it in the palm of my hand and dump it in. You'll see how well one casefull works. Then you can add more if you need it. If the brass comes out clean, no sense in adding more. I think the amount of lemishine required also varies based on how hard or soft your tap water is.

I add a squirt of armorall wash & wax instead of dawn (either way, you'll need more than a few drops). I tumble for an hour, rinse, dry, lube, size, load. I use the LEE resizing lube, which is more of a wax, and do not clean it off after sizing.

 

[Herman B]

I have the same FA tumbler and do much like you; squeeze-o-Dawn, 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon L'shine but also add Armor All Wash and Wax (four tablespoons). I've throttled-back the L'shine - excess may 'yellow' the brass.

Reloading is much about materials-handling. Whenver/wherever I can avoid a (brass) handling step, I'm on-board. Hence, my choice to use Hornady One Shot to lube brass before sizing. Spray, size and move on. No tumbling, wiping etc. Excellent product.

 

[CMB]

I too just switched to wet tumbling. I believe the amount that "works best" may vary depending on your waters hardness. I found ¼ to ½ works just fine.

I did use 1 teaspoon once and it to was fine - in my case.

I keep the old corn cob media around for after sizing. 30 min to an hour does the job removing the sizing lube and they look great. Walnut works well too. The way I see it, the real dirt goes out with the water so the dry media lasts a very long time.

Cleaning up the pins was a pain the first couple of times but it gets easier..


Good Luck!!

 

[bluejay75]

The guys above hit it right on. I would add to use hot tap water over cold. Don’t let them sit too long after it stops tumbling. I do a second tumbling to get lube off and never use pins. Pins get them cleaner but I don’t need for my brass to be that clean. For extremely dirty or tarnished brass I double the amount of lemishine, pour that off after an hour and refill with hot water and let it run for one more hour. Everyone’s technique is different. You will find what works best for you.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Definitely get the FA Magnet pickup tool.
Also one of the posters previously on this subject mentioned the painters drain cloth thingy.
It's elastic and goes over the 5 gallon buckets. SuperTuff
They work good but I have a 3 gallon tub that the outside handles of the FA Quick-N-EZ fits perfectly on, even leaves a 2 inch gap to keep everything out of the water. Then I use the magnet to get the pins out of the water.

 

[packetloss]

Use Hot water and do not let it sit after finishing. Get the Frankford Arsenal media separator.

As far as how much citric acid (lemishine is 99% citric acid) it will vary depending on your water hardness. You should experiment and see the quantity that works best for you. More is NOT better. Work it up till you get the right ratio that works with your water.

If you do wet tumble cases with lube, you will also need to occasionally run Zepp purple degreaser through the tumbler with just the pins in it.

 

[merlynski]

I am new to wet pin tumbling also. We have very hard water where I live (small town well water) so I use distilled water. About a teaspoon of citric acid and three sprays of Simple Green from a concentrate spray bottle, in a National Metallic tumbler. Hot water from an old coffee percolator, plus room temp to finish the fill. After tumble I rinse in plain distilled water to get rid of remaining chemicals on the cases. Then spread them out on an old baking sheet to dry overnight.

I really like how it cleans inside the case and the primer pockets.

However, since I mostly load straight wall cases, I use carbide sizing dies and don't need lube.

I did run a newly acquired bunch of heavily lubed .40S&W range brass through the Redding G-Rx (non-carbide) bulge remover because some had Glock frowns, and then did a dry walnut tumble in the vibrator, after sizing, to get rid of the lube. That way there was no 'second time' wait for them to dry.

I found, like others did, that pins end up all over everywhere, a strong magnet will become a good friend. I have a 1" very high strength cube magnet. Wrapped in cloth it works great to pick up pins.


EDIT: more

 

[IALoder]

I have the exact same tumbler. I use a 9mm case of lemishine and a squirt of armor all wash and wax. As for getting the lube off after sizing, I've always wiped them off with a cheap harbor freight microfiber towel after sizing. I use both sizing wax and rcbs case slick spray. Works well for me!

 

[GBExpat]

If you replace the Dawn with ArmorAll Wash&Wax you will probably discover that not only do the cases move more smoothly (just in case you decide to run unlubed with the straight-walled) thru the sizer, but they stay tarnish-free for MUCH longer.

 

[Goofball84]

I just started using a wet tumbler also. I use a Lee Loadmaster progressive press. I was using just walnut/corncob/Nufinish to clean my brass. It works. Its clean enough for loading and shooting. But the dirty primer pockets, and sometimes crud left inside cases, bugged me.

Here what I found works for me.
Dirty range brass goes into vibratory with mostly walnut, some corn cob, and a dash of Nufinish for about 30-60mins. This gives them a quick clean to get the crud off. Then I run the brass through the Loadmaster using only a universal de-prime die and then carbide sizer die in another station. (The reason for this is when running the press to load, the primer is pressed under the sizer die, along with every other process happening at the same time. This can really make for a hard pull on the lever. The sizing takes the most force to do. By pre-sizing, I can fell the primer seating better during the loading session.)

After de-primed and sized, the brass goes into the wet pin tumbler with hot water, dash of dawn, and about a teaspoon of citric acid powder. Run for about an hour then empty through the mesh screen on the tumbler. Refill with hot water and run tumbler for a couple minutes to rinse. Empty through the mesh again. Then I use a FA media separator to tumbler the pins out of the brass. I fill the bottom of the media separator with enough water to submerge the bottom of the basket as it rolls. I found the pins don't stick to everything when they are under water. I find 1-3 pins on the towel when empty the separator basket.

Then I lay the brass out on a half-sheet cooking tray. Turn the oven on to convection 170f and bake for about 1-2hrs. The brass comes out darker from the oven heat.

Then the brass goes back into the vibratory with mostly corncob, some walnut, and squirt of NuFinish. Run for about 30mins or so and the shiny polish is back. Plus the NuFinish "lubes" the brass.

When I run the loadmaster to load with this processed brass, it runs all 5 stations with almost no resistance pulling the lever.

All in all, I like the quick and easy cleaning of just dry media in the vibratory. I hate dealing with those pins flying everywhere. All the extra steps with wet tumbling is a little annoying. Compared to the vibratory, the wet tumbler is a lot louder and shakes the floor. But the spotless cleaning inside and out of the brass is so nice. So I'll stick with wet cleaning for now.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

I made the switch to wet tumbling this year after reading many positive experiences on this forum. I also have the small FA tumbler. Here is my process and it works well for me.

1. Place the fired brass in the tumbler along with very hot water, about 1 tablespoon of armorall wash and wax, and 1 9MM case full of lemishine. I never use stainless pins because I am happy with the result without them.

2. I run the tumbler 2 hours and dump the brass in a strainer and rinse it off.

3. I put the brass in an old food dehydrator for about two hours to dry.

4. Inspect, size and decap, trim and deburr (rifle), and remove any primer crimps.

5. Repeat steps 1, 2, 3. This removes the case lube, cleans out any brass shaving from the prep work, and finishes cleaning out the primer pockets.

Two wash cycles may seem excessive but I load in small batches on a single stage. The first washing really helps keep fired primer residue off of my press and out of my dies.

 

[packetloss]

If you replace the Dawn with ArmorAll Wash&Wax you will probably discover that not only do the cases move more smoothly (just in case you decide to run unlubed with the straight-walled) thru the sizer, but they stay tarnish-free for MUCH longer.

Not everyone seems to get good results with Armor All wash and Wax if used for the cleaning step. When I use Dawn and everything else is the same (citric acid etc.) my cases come out super shiny and clean. With wash and wax instead of Dawn they were just not shiny.

So what I do is initially wash them with dawn, citric acid and pins. Then after that is done, rinsed etc., I'll then tumble them for 5 minutes with wash and wax and a small amount of citric acid (no pins) and then they come out shiny and have the nice coating on them to keep them tarnish free.

 

[vtsteve]

For pistol brass, I usually size/decap them dirty since it theoretically shouldn't hurt my carbide dies. My favorite thing about the wet tumbler (with stainless pins) is that it gets the primer pockets squeaky clean. You just need to keep eye out for the occasion couple of pins that get stuck in a flash hole.

For bottleneck/rifle brass I will usually dry tumble with corncob/walnut, size/decap then run them through the wet tumbler. As others have said, a squirt of dish soap and a pinch of lemishine. Also, you can get a 5 pound bag of food grade powdered citric acid for about 15 bucks. It's the same thing and is enough to last more than a lifetime. Don't leave the brass in there for too long or it will turn a pinkish copper color. This is due to some zinc being removed by the acid and can supposedly weaken the brass a little.

After removing the pins I put my wet brass on a small baking sheet and stick in an old toaster oven at 250F for about an hour. This dries them completely inside and out, and isn't hot enough to affect the metallurgy at all.

 

[FROGO207]

100 posters and 100 methods.
I use citric acid and squirt of Dawn. Just enough to cover the brass and pins well. Run 1 hour or so after removing the primers. Dry and size, then either run through corn cob with NewFinish 1 hour or load and then run through corn cob 1 hour. The latter if no hollow points or lead /aloxed bullets are used.

FWIW I use my rotary separator with pins and brass in the tub filled with water and rotate slowly alternating with an occasional back and forth. This will remove all the pins easily. Then do this again with clean water to complete the rinse. Then dymp in an old bath towel and massage around to dry the outside to prevent water spots. Spread out and dry. I use a couple of cardboard beer flats that ended up here.

 

[Blue68f100]

If at the end of your cycle the pins are dirty, you did no use enough soap. Everything will have a thin black/carbon coating on them. Better to add too much than not enough.

 

[tcoz]

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. Great tips. I’m going to write all of them down

 

[Rule3]

Whats with the measurement of Lem Shine in arbitrary numbers like a case full or even worse fractions of a teaspoon??!!

Reloaders should be measure in precise measurements like GRAINS, just like powder. Then you can bump your load by 0.2 grains or so,.
One must also use pure lab grade H2O or at least distilled water, None of this crummy tap water stuff!

 

[Highland Lofts]

Once I switched to wet tumbling I do not use the dry tumbler any more.
I use hot tap water, 1/2 a teaspoon of LemiShine, a cap full of ArmorAll wash & wax and a small squirt of Dawn dish soap. I tumble the brass for an hour, dump the dirty water.
Fill the drum up, shake it around, dump the gray water.
If the brass isn't clean as you want it repeat the hot water,LemiShine, ArmorAll, and dawn dish soap.

For really tarnished brass it is better to tumble it in three one hour sessions than one three hour session. You dump alot of really bad stuff every time instead of tumbling the brass In that rancid water for three hours.


I have tumbled tarnished ranger brass like this and had it come out looking like new.
n

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

the amount of lemishine required also varies based on how hard or soft your tap water is.

Yup, one must experiment...

excess may 'yellow' the brass

A word of caution, (from experience) dissolve the lemi-shine in the water before adding the brass to be tumbled. The acid will etch any brass fairly rapidly if it lands on it.

I have tumbled tarnished ranger brass like this and had it come out looking like new.

So true!

have the nice coating on them to keep them tarnish free.

Yup, with the wash and wax.

 

[twarr1]

Method 101
I deprime, then run the cases through the vibratory tumbler with corncob. This helps keeps my sizing dies clean. (No decapping pin on the expander) After sizing, trimming, deburring and primer pocket cleanup, they go in the Thumler Model B rotary tumbler as a last step.
I don’t mind the 2 cleaning steps, I can have both tumblers going while I prep brass or load.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I have never measured the citric acid I use. If I have some dish soap or simple green handy, I add some. Hot water helps. I use Hornady One Shot Case Lube so I never have to clean lube off of any case. I don't de-prime before tumbling because that would take thousands more pulls of a lever and I could not care less about clean primer pockets.

 

[UCO___]

So after many years I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and switch from dry to wet tumbling with a Frankford Arsenal Lite tumbler. I have two questions. First, I'm going to use a few drops of Dawn and some Lemi Shine but I've seen the quantity of Lemi Shine to use vary from 1/8 teaspoonful to multiple teaspoonsful. The drum is only one gallon and I was planning to add one 9mm caseful of Lemi Shine. Does that sound about right?

Second and more importantly, I clean my brass first thing before sizing and then after sizing I've always tumbled it for another half hour to remove the excess lube. Rather than going through the entire wet tumbling process again, do most of you just wipe the cases down after resizing, do you throw it back into the tumbler for a while without any additives or do you have some other good way of removing the lube? I use Imperial case lube

Thanks in advance for your responses.

I actually soldered a twisted wire to the side of a 9mm case and use it as a scoop. That is all I use in the larger FART. Don't get too hung up on the exact amount. I found HOT water is the key for me, it really gets the suds flowing. I tried to use a car wash/wax instead of Dawn, but it didn't work. Stick with what works.

 

[Dudedog]

Reloaders should be measure in precise measurements like GRAINS, just like powder. Then you can bump your load by 0.2 grains or so,

Then I suppose a dollop of Wash and Wax and a dash of citric acid won't work for measuring

I use Wash and Wax (whatever flavor the car is getting and car gets what's on sale usually Turtle) and citric acid.
You can buy the citric acid from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...=1&keywords=citric+acid&qid=1625164183&sr=8-5
5lbs for $17 (2lbs is $12 so 3 more pounds for not much more)
5lbs will last quite a while unless you are doing lots of brass.

How much citric acid depends on your water PH, higher PH water needs more.
I am always generous with the W+W, I suppose you could use to much but you would have to try hard to use to much.
W+W helps prevent brass tarnish when you store it, I didn't do the dishwashing soap for very long, but as a FYI it takes more W+W than dish soap to get good results.
For the smaller tumblers I would say an oz or two if W+W.
The acid is different to much is bad, I don't really measure just a dash of acid but say a .45 case for my water and a larger tumbler.

My range has nasty 40-80 grit dirt so I rinse the brass with a hose then do a quick 1/2 hour tumble and let it dry.
Then after I get it resized and deprimed I will run it again for an hour.

Here in CA my pins decide every now and then they don't need to work and try to escape, but I round them up with a magnet and put them back to work.
I have a Frankford media separator I bought when I dry tumbled, it works well with the pins.

The other day when it was 109 here I sat some brass out to dry in the sun, dried pretty quick almost to hot to touch.
When it is cool or bad weather I just put it on an old towel in the corner of a room inside and let it dry for a day or two.

 

[WeekendReloader]

A word of caution, (from experience) dissolve the lemi-shine in the water before adding the brass to be tumbled. The acid will etch any brass fairly rapidly if it lands on it.

Not my experience.
I toss in the brass. Toss in some lemishine. Squirt in some Wash & Wax. Then add hot tap water. No problems.