Win 70 vs Rem 700

both guns are pretty nice, and both have their staunch supporters. i have both brands in various configurations, and like remingtons far better.

however... this is a pretty personal decision. what you need to do is run down to your local purveyor of guns, and look at a few, and handle a few. you'll find one that just 'speaks to you'. that's the one to get. shoulder the gun a few times, feel how it balances, see which one looks better.

things to ask about... there are dozens of variations of either brand. remington has various combinations of wood, synthetic stocked rifles in stainless and blue... winchester, too. remington also has the dandy little model 7 - don't overlook this one as a hunter.

there are detacheable mags, blind mags, and hinged floorplates. there are dull finishes and shiny finishes. there are 22, 24, and 26" barrels.

i'd advise you to start your search w/ the remington 700 adl. this is their more economical gun, and features a blind mag, and dull finish on wood. the synthetic stocked version features a blued barrel.

i don't like semi-autos for hunting... the terrain i hunt is better suited to bolt guns.

First, I'd STRONGLY recommend you avoid Remington semi-autos. When I was working gun club range/safety officer duty every year before deer season, I saw a LOT of guns come though during our sight-in days. Without a doubt, there was a higher percentage of Remington autojammers than ANY other brand - by a substantial margin. Some worked fine, some guys swore by them, but the percentage of guys swearing AT them was well up into the double digits.

For bolt actions, Rem and Win are both good, but I prefer Winchester for the following reasons:

1. Extraction: Controlled round feed is nice, but not necessary. But both the CRF and the post'64 push-feed Winchesters get a better bite on the cartridge rim than the Remington extractor. Advantage: Winchester

2. Trigger - the Winchester trigger is a marvel of functional simplicity, rugged, reliable, and easy to adjust. Advantage: Winchester

3. Manual Safety - the Winchester 3-position safety is better, and is often found on custom rifles. Nobody I've ever heard of advertises a custom rifle with a "Remington-type" safety, it's always a "Winchester type" safety. Advantage: Winchester

4. Accuracy - the Remington has a tubular receiver, which is easier to bed, particularly if you're using a stock with a metal bedding block. It's also a very "stiff" action. In "off the rack" hunting rifles you won't see it, but, though it pains me to admit it, custom tuned Remingtons tend to be a mite more accurate. Advantage (groan): Remington

Overall . . . well, for a hunting rifle, I'd suggest looking for something which has an overall dull finish - shiny barrels and stocks that look pretty in the store can reflect sunlight and spook game. And beyond that, see which one FITS you better. You ought to be able to look at a target, close your eyes, raise the rifle to your shoulder, and be sighted in darned close to the target when you open your eyes again, without having to shift the rifle or your head to align things. I consider rifle fit to be critical; I'd rather use a Remington that fit me than a Winchester that didn't.

As HankB said,

3. Manual Safety - the Winchester 3-position safety is better, and is often found on custom rifles. Nobody I've ever heard of advertises a custom rifle with a "Remington-type" safety, it's always a "Winchester type" safety. Advantage: Winchester

Click to expand...

One other (extremely important, in my humble opinion) positive feature about the Winchester safety is that it locks the firing pin , not the sear or trigger. Much more reliable design.

Regards,
hps

I second the comments on the Remington autos. I have never owned one but have known a lot of people who had problems with them. (My own father for one, and he refuses to get rid of it, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr). I have not owned either a 70 or 700. I bought a Browning A-Bolt as my first bolt gun and loved it so I just stuck with them. Smooth action, very accurate and so far in 16 years of hunting with them, 100% reliable.

I have owned numerous Model 70's one Rem 700 and one Browning A-Bolt.

The quality of all of them is equal, in my opinion.

Just a matter of personal taste, I prefer the Winchesters (oh, and my Weatherby Mark V).

Take this with a block of salt, because it's statistically insignificant. But, I'll throw it out anyway. I really like the Winchester name, and I would really like to own a Winchester rifle. Just because. But the last three times I went looking for a rifle, even though in my heart I kind of wanted a Win, I ended up buying a different brand (Browning, Rem, and Marlin), because they seemed smoother and more solid. Next time I go shopping, I'll probably look more closely at the Tikkas and CZs. Personally, I think Winchester is missing the boat; there is a big universe of potential customers, like me, who would like to own one, but it's tough to justify the prices for the good ones when there are seemingly better options available for less money.

Both are good rifles. You may want to look into the Ruger M77 MKII as well. Also look at the ( it pains me to say it) Savage. I say that because I've had bad luck with the Savage, but I hear a lot of people on this thread talk very favorably about theirs. Don't get too caught up on names. Find a rifle that fits you better. The one that fits you best should be the one you buy.

If you check around, you may find some real bargains, too. This is the off-season for hunting rifles; I was out pawnshop cruising last weekend, and saw some pretty good bargains on bolt rifles. (Didn't do me much good, though, as they were all right-handed rifles, and I'm left-handed.)

Having just hunted a Pre-64 Mod 70

I'll tell you that if you are ambivalent, then choose the Remington. They can be had for around $300 used (for a good hunting piece) and are fine just like that. If you are like me and specifically looking for a Pre-64 model 70 then expect to pay at least $500 for it, even if the stock is junk as mine is (I'd already planned a McMillan purchase though). If the Remington extractor worries you, you can have a smith to add a Sako extractor for a small fee.

Hide the gas cans. Get out the fire extinguishers. Here is episode umpteen zillion of push-feed vs CRF. Remington vs Winchester.

Let the flame throwing begin

Get what you like. Remington, Winchester, Savage even Ruger. They all pretty much perform the same out of the box.



ZM

My personal tastes leans toward the Remington 700. Not that there is any thing wrong with the Winchester M70. It’s a fine gun. I just like the tube receiver and push-round feed of the 700. That and the fact that it is what I cut my center-fire teeth on. Lots of fine memories with the 700.

But with the type of hunting you describe (100 yards and < for whitetail), don’t overlook the Marlin lever guns in the old .30-.30 chambering. Another fine choice for the circumstances you describe is the Deerfield in 44Mag. Both will do a great job on whitetail in Eastern woods.

I love it when people accurately describe their true needs instead of thinking they need to shoot 3" groups at 600 yards through the brush.

I dunno if you're hung on either a Win 70 or a Rem 700, but I'd like to throw another variable into the equation here. I don't think anyone mentioned a Tikka. Tikka is a very fine rifle, and manufactured in Finland by Seko (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Tikka is owned by Beretta, and I found a Tikka T3 Lite quite a bit cheaper than I bought my Rem Model 7 for. I'll probably always go back to Tikka for every bolt gun I buy from now on. I just like 'em that much. Great quality, excellent feel, and outstanding accuracy are always qualities you want in a gun. Pick the gun you like and feels best to you and then you'll be happy.

Mac Attack engaged with, "I have narrowed down my rifle and caliber selection but need to decide which on which model of Win 70 to purchase. Any suggestions?"

Ask the following questions:

Are you gonna carry it more than shoot it?
Is it gonna be a long range plinker, annual hunting rifle or companion on the job?
Are you going to invest time and money in hand loading?
Do you need great accuracy beyond 250 yards?
Do you want appearance or function?
Do you want optical sights? Scope or snap shot?
What is your caliber and prime use?

Geoff
Who is fond of an overly complicated Remington 700 BDL in .308.

in addition to those questions, i would also add... if you handled a win 70 lightweight, and preferred that, then make sure the win 70 you choose is also a lightweight... a different version of the m70 will feel different.

also, comparing a lightweight to a 700 bdl is perhaps not the best comparison (bdl is a fairly heavy rifle)... suggest you handle a remington mountain rifle (this is the best feeling factory rifle i have ever handled), remington model 7, and a couple more win 70's (the shadow and the classic would be good starters).

for calibers for the hunting you describe, just about anything you touch would work... i would steer you in the direction of a 7-08 or 308...

From the FWIW department: The .270's 130-grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of about 3,000 ft/sec. Roughly. The 7mm08's 140-grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of about 2,900 ft/sec.

Bambi can't tell the difference.

There are two advantages to the 7mm08. First is the shorter action, making for a tad less weight. Second, if you do go to reloading, there is a wider assortment of bullets available.

But there ain't no flies on the .270; I've killed a few deer with one, and handloaded for it. My bullet preference back then was the Remington 130-grain Bronze Point.

Scope? A Leupold VX1 in either 2x7x33 (or wuz it 32mm?) or 3x9x40 will last for decades. I've mostly used Weaver mounts on probably dozens of different rifles; nary a problem. (33 years on my pet Wby in '06) I gotta say that the Conetrols are much prettier...

, Art

Mac - Why paint your rifle? If you're worried about rain damaging the stock, don't. Paint will not protect it any better than the factory finish unless you get some some pretty expensive paint.

Hunters have carried wood stocked rifles in the field for decades with nothing more than the factory finish and not had major problems. If you're that worried, get a synthetic stocked rifle. All the painting will do is cover up that nice wood grain (which as an amatuer woodworker is a big thing to me) and hurt the potential resale value of the gun.

Also, don't overlook chamberings like .243 Winchester, and 6.5x55 Swede. Both of those are, or at least were, available in the Win 70. Those are lighter recoiling rounds than either .270 or .30-06 by good margin (this really helps with practical accuracy), and will still make Bambi just as DRT, espicially at <100 yards. They are also both good for shots out to 300 yards for whitetail. Ammo availability is decent for 6.5 Swede and .243 is everywhere. If you get into handloading, the 6.5 Swede is very versitile - it's good for everything from coyotes (85 grain) to moose (160 grain) inclusive.

Mac Attack responded to my questions.

Based on those responses, I suggest a M70 Featherweight:

Model 535004226
270 Win.
Bbl: 22"
LOA: 42 1/2"
Wt. 7 lbs. 4 oz.
SRP: $762

And a Leopold V-XIII
1.5-5X 20mm (30mm Tube)
Matte Illuminated (Duplex)
Model: LEU54902

The illuminated scope for working the woods at 1.5 power, 5 power if you need longer range. In the woods use light bullets, as "penetrating brush with a heavy bullet" is no longer acceptable from a safety standpoint. Take only clean shots. A light bullet in a .270 will take deer easily.

A good, broad, well fitted sling is an advantage as well.

Geoff
Who has a Rem 700 BDL in .308 with a Leopold 4x fixed. No illumination. It's been around a long time.

why is busting brush with a heavy bullet no longer acceptable?

I just had this question a few months back and got the Remington.

American Rifleman had an article on this I think a month ago. One of the kind of funny things they mentioned is Chevy drivers tend to go with the Winchester and Ford drivers go with the 700.

Seems to work that way at my club.

why is busting brush with a heavy bullet no longer acceptable?

Click to expand...

Brush dflects heavy bullets the same way it deflects light bullets. Brush busting bullets or calibers is a myth.


Now that you've looked at the 700 and 70, take a look at the CZ 550- Ifeel that for the price, you get a much better rifle than either the Remington or Winchester, or Ruger for that matter.