Re-Barreling AR15 in 6.5G/.264LBC: Questions.

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The_Next_Generation

The_Next_Generation

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Hey everyone,

So I feel that I am outgrowing my White-Oak barreled, 18", .223 Wydle-chambered AR15. The gun shoots, don't get me wrong. With a Hornady 75gr BTHP I get groups that are about .400" or less @100 yards(depending on how well I'm shooting that day ;)). However, I find that there isn't much "punch" left when shooting steel at about 620 yards. This, coupled with the fact that I'd like to hunt deer with this rifle (for both political and practical reasons), has led me to consider re-barreling in the 6.5 Grendel or .264 LBC. I already reload, so finding factory ammo isn't of much concern.

I've read quite a few forums on the subject, but I'm still a little confused on the differences between the 6.5 Grendel and the .264 LBC. From what I've read, you can shoot either/or in either chambering. The only difference is the neck diameter and throat; if I read the discussions correctly. Is there an advantage of one over the other? The vibe that I've gotten is that the .264 LBC chambering is slightly more user-friendly as the way the throat is cut makes it harder to get bullets jammed into the rifling. Unlike the 6.5 Grendel, which I have heard has issues with this.

I would appreciate any input on deciding between these two chambers.

Thanks!
 
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I think most of the issues with short throat Grendel barrels are limited to certain barrels that are not cut to spec. The Grendel has a compound throat that was designed to handle a large range of bullet weights up to 140. As I understand it the LBC has more of a standard throat optimized more for the 120 - 123 bullets that seem to work well with this round. I don't think there is that much difference between the two. The reason the two different specs exist is mostly because the Grendel was under copyright when the LBC was released, sort of like 300 blackout and 300 whisper. They changed it just enough not to have to pay royalties .

Other may disagree but unless you plan on shooting heavy of light bullets I don't think its going to make a difference.
 
I certainly hope you buy a new upper receiver and disassemble an upper consistently shooting 0.4" (0.38 MOA) off the existing upper. It's worth the extra $150 or so in my opinion.

Mike
 
Buying a new upper tends to morph into another gun.

Shop around for the barrel recommended by the 6.5 users. If throat is a concern they will certainly address it. A 6.5 shooters forum will be a lot more knowledgeable about it than a general one like this.

One issue may be finding magazines. They will also have answers to which is best for the money. Standard AR15 mags will not work.

A 6.5 specific bolt will be necessary, the cartridge base on the Grendel is larger. Goes to why a standard magazine won't work.

Of recent note is that Les Baer may have discontinued the .264LBC. It's all about sales. If the dimensional difference makes no extra gain in performance, the shooting community pretty much ignores things and sticks to the front runner. It's been about four years on the market, and .264LBC didn't seem to even make a dent in things. Unlike .300BO, Remington's backing replaced the Whisper in that wildcat's nomenclature.

Did all that .264LBC headstamp brass ever hit the market?
 
Your understanding of the (my opinion, flawed) Grendel's throat is correct, and various barrel makers have corrected it (and chose non-trademarked names.)

If you're still open to a new caliber take a look at the 6.8 SPC II as it has the same conversion 'costs' (bolt, barrel, magazines) as the Grendel but, to my eyes, has better component/ammo availability.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Am I the only multi-upper guy around. It seems like taking advantage of one of the main advantages of the platform.
Click to expand...

I agree with Tirod.

Being able to change out uppers is an advantage of the design of the AR-15 as well as the Thompson/Center guns.

But, I find the wrong barrel was always installed on my Contender frame so I just as soon have a complete gun. This concept has continued as I have gotten into assembling Ar-15s.

Besides, I enjoy trying different accessories more in line with the proposed service of the particular AR-15 with each different lower.

My choice and definitely not everyone's.
 
Arizona_Mike, either that post is dripping with sarcasm or there is some sort of typo. Could you perhaps re-phrase what you wrote?

Also, I don't have a very large "fun-fund" as I am a college student. This is why I want to rebarrel and not build a completely new upper. I figure I can sell the bbl for ~$200 and the JP Enhanced bolt for another $90 or so. That should get me close to the $300+ required to buy a new bbl and bolt.
 
I think what Mike meant is one of the great features of ARs is the ability to have several uppers in several calibers, different sights, barrel length, ect., and swap them all on one lower with two pins.
Whenever someone asks my advice on building an AR, I always recommend going overboard on the lower for that reason.

I have a 6.5 CSS with a 18" barrel. It is 10-12 years old. There are a couple of stories floating around on how the Grendel came to be. I was told Bill Alexander was toying with the idea, went to CSS and they were using a prototype. Bill stayed with his throat design and patterned it. (This is all rumor mill). L.B. Then came up with his own as stated above.

I have shot many amazing groups with mine. Many have sucked too! Five white tails have fallen too. If you are looking for a low recoil fun gun to shoot, this is it.
I have toyed with building one in another cal., 6x45, 7.62x 39, 6.8, but I don't think I would gain anything.

I would try and may try a L.B. 264 barrel. Have to see if available.

Good luck.
 
Look into a Black Hole Weaponry 6.5x6.8 (straight neck down on a 6.8spc case) or an AR15 Performance Six5 (6.8spc necked down and shortened). Both with give you the same or better performance than a Grendel while using stronger bolts and better magazines.
 
Next-gen, yes. I have shot both Black Hills and A.A. Nosler loaded ammo out of mine. My understanding the biggest difference between A.A. and CSS chambers was CSS had a .005" tighter neck. More of a Match chamber(?).
My best group with. Black Hills 123g SMKS was .662" at 200yards with 4 out of 5 in 3/8". The next group was 1 1/2". Go figure.
 
I think the 6.5X6.8 would provide you with several advantages provided you are a handloader. They run faster than the Grendel because of the higher pressure. Brass is a bit more available in some areas and they don't break bolts like the Grendel thanks to lower bolt thrust. Feeding is more reliable thanks to case design also.

The BHW barrels are producing outstanding performance in groups and since they offer an almost limitless combination of profiles and finishes you can get a match grade custom barrel made to your own specifications.

Greg
 
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