AR15/M4 BCM or LMT?

I just think the BCM and LMT have better fit and finish (and maybe internals).

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If all your doing is punching paper then your wasting money on a mid range to higher end AR.

You will enjoy a S&W M&P, Delton, CMMG, Rock River, Stag and a few other manufacturers. Spend the extra money on ammo.

If your not a serious shooter all your paying extra for is bragging rights at the range and that wares off shortly after purchase.

That's like comparing a Ferrari and Lamborghini. Both are top-tier builders. I ended up going with a LMT lower and BCM midlength upper and am happy with the end result.

Anybody else notice the LARGE increase in threads about buying these Xxx/Yyy brand rifles, because everything else out there is inferior? Are we back to interweb creep marketing "questions", to try and direct sales again!?

If I'm going to run my $2000 M4 for 9000 rounds w/o cleaning, it IS because I am a "government operator" and I have no care about beating the crap out of said free rifle, and I will be getting another free rifle soon.

OP-if you buy a $650 M&P, run it/shoot it for 5 years at say 2000 rounds per year, you can eventually sell it for say at least $500 and/or just put a new barrel on it.

I bought my LE6920MP as I got a great LE/MIL Discount at the time, and thankfully it has been a great rifle. However, I do not see the need to shove Colts down everybody's throats, when I know the truth as already spoken above: with the exception of the roll marks, these rifles are pretty much the same for us average paper/range shooters.

If money were no object for a 5.56 battle rifle I'd go with an HK or FN. If you are a smaller stature person you would probably LOVE the FN FS2000, but it sounds like you're looking for a more intro budget unit.

As much as I like the M&P Sport after owning one, if you're price point allows a better rifle that is Milspec, then buy one of the higher end AR15's from BCM or LMT.

BCM might have a little more options in configurations. I recommend their Midlength AR's.

But LMT makes very good rifles also. Read this thread about an "Operator" putting one through its paces with no cleaning, running suppressed and unsuppresed for over 9k rounds:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....little-LMT-fun

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Something similar has already been done with Bushmasters as well. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

Lessened cleaning requirements aren't really a feature of Mil-spec. The whole idea that AR's need to be meticulously clean is largely fueled by Army tradition and crappy magazines. Now I live in a dusty place, and have seen AR's go down during a shooting competitions where there is lots of wind and dust. I will say that the failure is generally operator error. People will run their AR bone dry or with a very thin oil from a spray can and get problems. Or OTOH people will be squirting massive amounts of CLP all over there rifle and a bunch of it gets into their magazine. These failures are coming from a variety of brands, personally owned and agency issued, and happen at very low round counts. IE less than 150 rounds fired at the competition.

OP: "I can afford either a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. Which should I get?"

Response: "Get a Ford! Get a Chevy! Spend the rest on gas!"

The M&P Sport is a fantastic value, but a BCM does potentially have some features that the Sport does not:

• The M&P Sport has carbine-length gas, but you can get a midlength BCM (softer shooting, easier on parts, longer sight radius, longer handguards). The OP said he was interested in the idea of a middy.
  
• The M&P Sport has no ejection port cover. That saves some money and isn't strictly necessary on a range-only rifle, but it's still a nice feature to have if you don't mind paying for it.
  
• The M&P Sport has no forward assist. It's arguably not necessary but there are times it is a handy feature on a civilian HD rifle (like allowing you to verify the bolt is fully forward after a press check without getting your thumb oily).
  
• BCM internals are made to milspec standards for durability; not sure if the M&P's are or not.
  
• You can get the BCM with a Gunfighter charging handle, which is a definite improvement over the stock charging handle. (Though you could buy one for the S&W and still come out much cheaper.)

I'm not saying that the M&P is a bad choice even if your budget is over $1K---again, it's a screaming deal for what it is---just pointing out that there are indeed rational reasons why one might want to spend more to get more, if the additional features are important to the buyer.

And if one wants to recommend a Chevy or Ford, S&W offers the Corvette ZR1 of AR-15s, the M&P15 T. The T has a nitrided 1:8 twist in bbl, lightweight free float handguard, and no corners were cut on the T as on the Sport.

I like the BCM lightweight midlength myself. The midlength gas system is a little better balanced to a 16" barrel. The carbine does handle a little better for me, but I think shot for shot, a midlength will probably last longer with fewer replacement parts needed over the life of the rifle.
If you're only looking at informal use, you'll probably never need to swap any parts anyhow though. LMT is very respected, as are Colt and BCM. Your call.

But I think LMT only does carbines while BCM does virtually any configuration you can imagine. So... Mine would be BCM.

And while some lower priced alternatives like PSA and the M&P Sport are great from what I've read, I've never heard anyone lament the extra money spent on something like a BCM or Colt. If you want a BCM or LMT and can afford them, get one.

Threads like this are why I distance myself from ARs and AR fans. The obsession with all the minutiae is exhaustion and just silly.

They are all pretty good. Different style builds have different advantages. Get one. Stick some magpul stuff on it and drive on.

They are all pretty good.

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No, they are not all pretty good. Some companies have consistent problems cutting chambers properly. Some use cost cutting measures that won't affect any but the hardest users, while others use cost cutting measures that will affect all but the lightest users. Still other manufacturers don't even assemble the rifles properly. The minutiae actually does matter. Threads like this help folks to understand what will likely matter to them, and help the buyer make an informed choice when purchasing.

What ugaarguy said.

Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorn comes to mind when people say all ARs are created equal and "Parts is Parts".

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I compromised and built a rifle with an LMT lower, BCM upper (16" mid-length), and a Daniel Defense BCG. I love it, and it's totally reliable. I added a Magpul MOE Plus grip, Spike's heavy buffer, BCM Gunfighter charging handle, Troy folding BUIS, and an Aimpoint PRO sight. Now it's perfect.

Threads like this are why I distance myself from ARs and AR fans. The obsession with all the minutiae is exhaustion and just silly.

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Obviously you have never heard people debate the merits of the pre-'64 vs. post-'64 Winchester Model 70, Remington vs. Savage, 870 vs Mossberg, Glock vs. 1911, 9mm vs. .45, Chevy vs. Ford, or the Hayabusa vs. ____. Welcome to the Internet!

They are all pretty good. Different style builds have different advantages. Get one. Stick some magpul stuff on it and drive on.

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I do think there is some merit to thinking through the details of what you want before you buy; otherwise you will spend the next two years realizing what options you didn't get but would prefer, and it is more expensive to replace parts than to buy it the way you want it to start with.

For example, my AR (Rock River 16" middy) came with a Rock River heavy barrel, a fixed rear sight with an elevated rail, and plastic handguards. It is quite accurate but very nose-heavy, and the elevated rail was too high for an Eotech to cowitness. So I ended up ditching the fixed rear and elevated rail for a flip-up rear, and am saving my pennies for a lightweight barrel and free float tube at some point.

When you spend the extra on a BCM or LMT over an M&P sport, you are not buying "bragging rights".

You are paying extra for better attention to detail during assembly, better materials that have been throughly tested and vetted, and closer adherence to the TDP without shortcuts thats proven to work reliably. THAT'S why I pony up for a higher tier AR, I don't have time or patience to fart around with "Eh, it'll probably work ok" rifles.

Now if all you can afford is an M&P, DPMS, Bushy, etc...well then buy it and shoot the heck out of it and enjoy it.

HammsBeer, unlike Bushy and DPMS, S&W actually does assemble their rifles properly. With the M&P Sport you're getting a slightly lower grade bbl steel, but a better barreal treatment (Nitrided vs Hard Chromed). The corners that are cut on the Sport are the trigger guard integral to the lower receiver forging, and the lack of dust cover and forward assist on the upper. The standard S&W rifles have proven themselves in training environments, and are even in use by EAG Tactical.

ugaarguy beat me to it.

I don't personally consider the integral trigger guard a cut corner. The one on my M&P Sport is very comfortable, even when firing long strings of fire. Much better than factory stock.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I think the M&P triggerguard is also just fine as is. Just as functional as an add-on part and it's cheaper, so it makes me wonder why that just isn't the standard triggerguard on all AR's. I have to agree on the LW barrel though - I think it handles better and most of us don't gain anything in a carbine by going with something heavier.

But I don't think the Sport is marketed to those of us who spend a lot of time thinking about exactly what we want. I think it's marketed to the people who just want a general purpose inexpensive AR.

I purchased a DPMS in 2009 even after alot of people condemned it for low quality. That rifle has been through many thousands of rounds and has never missed a lick. I have drug it through mud and dust while hog hunting, brush and thickets deer hunting, shot strings of rounds at targets and emptied mags til I cant hold it. It has never failed. Not once. If the other AR's are higher quality they must be great! One of my closest friends has the M&P 15 and it has pretty much done the same, even though it is alot newer and doesnt have quite as high of a round count.
My DPMS is also pretty accurate. I can pop 9" balloons at 460 yards. Thats pretty good for a 16" barrel and an Eotech sight. I have seen some really bad examples of AR's over the years, but the DPMS and M&P 15 are not bad by any means.

I actually prefer the trigger guard of the M&P Sport. I always change out the standard trigger guard on my lowers because they are uncomfortable. The Sport's trigger guard is comfy and eliminates the need to upgrade to a Magpul trigger guard.

Can't go wrong with a BCM or DD 16" light weight middy. Unless by LMT you mean MRP...their 16" barrel is a midlength and the QC barrel feature is sweet!



LMT MRP with 10.5" and 16" midlength stainless barrel.

Over the years one is much more likely to spend most of their AR budget on ammo versus the firearm itself provided real range time is planned.

Visiting a specialized AR forum (M4carbine, Arfcom, etc) will give good insights into the quality differences if a person is in the "buy once cry once" camp.

If the plan is to remove the AR after Thanksgiving Dinner for a quick "show & tell" what you invest in doesn't really matter.

I'm quite happy with my PSA lower, BCM 16" LW middy upper with a Ranier Arms BCG. It goes bang everytime and I have literally never cleaned it. Whatever I put the dot on (Aimpoint H1 micro) goes poof.