32acp suddenly intrigues me
- Thread starter WestKentucky
- Start date
- Status
HoosierQ
Member
I think with some of these comments we see so often that folks are always preparing for the absolute worst. Fair enough. But let's face it, your chance of getting bushwhacked by a platoon a Marines is pretty darned slim. You know, guys that will just keep coming at you even if you take some of them out.
The overwhelming vast majority of violent attacks that would call for armed self defense are by scumbags going for targets of opportunity. You pull out a gun, any gun, and place a couple of rounds center of mass, center of forehead, or center of gut, your status as a "target of opportunity" drops to near zero and of course if you're doing it right, you're running toward help, calling 911 etc.
I had a police officer, retired, talking to me at the range. He was telling me they are doing studies of shot placement and attack stopping vs lethality. He was telling me that while nobody is advocating it yet, shots low to the gut and or the pelvis are serious fight stoppers more so than torso shots. This of course is the Internet and that, of course, was gun range banter so who knows.
It does however seem to reinforce shot placement over round. If you find yourself if a fight where you need all 15-17 rounds and then to reload, you need to seriously consider just what you are doing wrong (or right if that's your line of work or whatever).
The overwhelming vast majority of violent attacks that would call for armed self defense are by scumbags going for targets of opportunity. You pull out a gun, any gun, and place a couple of rounds center of mass, center of forehead, or center of gut, your status as a "target of opportunity" drops to near zero and of course if you're doing it right, you're running toward help, calling 911 etc.
I had a police officer, retired, talking to me at the range. He was telling me they are doing studies of shot placement and attack stopping vs lethality. He was telling me that while nobody is advocating it yet, shots low to the gut and or the pelvis are serious fight stoppers more so than torso shots. This of course is the Internet and that, of course, was gun range banter so who knows.
It does however seem to reinforce shot placement over round. If you find yourself if a fight where you need all 15-17 rounds and then to reload, you need to seriously consider just what you are doing wrong (or right if that's your line of work or whatever).
Panzerschwein
member
Don't overlook the Kel Tec P32.
A modern gun, yet ultra tiny and light. Quite a bit of .32 ACP goodness in the palm of your hand!
One of my all time dream guns is a Vz. 61 Skorpion submachine gun/machine pistol chambered in .32 ACP. More realistically, one of the semi-auto high quality Skorpion pistol imported into the US. I would LOVE to SBR it and attach a real Skorpion folding stock on one. No real practical purpose, but unbelievably awesome!
A modern gun, yet ultra tiny and light. Quite a bit of .32 ACP goodness in the palm of your hand!
One of my all time dream guns is a Vz. 61 Skorpion submachine gun/machine pistol chambered in .32 ACP. More realistically, one of the semi-auto high quality Skorpion pistol imported into the US. I would LOVE to SBR it and attach a real Skorpion folding stock on one. No real practical purpose, but unbelievably awesome!
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
No more so than .38 Special or .380 here locally. We move folks past .22 and into center fire calibers with .32 and have had a lot of success with folks who started at .22 for basic NRA pistol safety course and then got handed a 9mm as the next step up and suddenly decided shooting was not all that much fun any more.
.32 is a nice center fire round, as cheap as anything else except maybe 9mm, reliable and satisfying to shoot without scaring or hurting newbies. My Wife has brought several folks back to the range using one of our Colt Pocket Hammerless who gave up because they couldn't make the jump from a .22 to a larger caliber without developing a flinch or feeling like they are shooting something that beats on them - later with more experience and technique they move up to all manner of stuff with more confidence after a few sessions with a milder shooting center fire automatic like the Colts.
And Hoosier: I talked to a couple old geezers who were cops back in the the 30' s and 40's and had actually been shot and shot other folks. Gut Shot even with a small caliber tends to make folks "fold up" according to them....Like a real bad belly ache, folks shot thru the belly button apparently tend to fold up even if they can bear the pain or don't feel it. Possibly an involuntary response like being punched in the stomach if you aren't flexed for it. Anyway...just old talk from old Dudes. Who knows?
VooDoo
Last edited:
HoosierQ
Member
Vodoun
That's sort of what this fella was saying. He was a more recent retiree. Looked about 70 so he'd have probably been a cop through the late 60s onwards. Said he'd always been taught center of mass (for the hit probability) and for the lethality of the organs there. Said the cops today are at least being exposed to fight stopping placement in a lower than center of mass. Told me, without being specific, "there was a time or two I wished I'd known that!" I know this is getting into tactics so I'll stop there.
I think a .32 acp is a viable self-defense arm especially when carried concealed. Sure, have a .45 acp or a .357 or 5.56 at the ready at the bedside...why not right? But a .32 Walther PP is going to be easy to shoot and very reliable as well as more carryable. I would be a fool to say that there are not several 9mms that are just about the same size as a PP.
That's sort of what this fella was saying. He was a more recent retiree. Looked about 70 so he'd have probably been a cop through the late 60s onwards. Said he'd always been taught center of mass (for the hit probability) and for the lethality of the organs there. Said the cops today are at least being exposed to fight stopping placement in a lower than center of mass. Told me, without being specific, "there was a time or two I wished I'd known that!" I know this is getting into tactics so I'll stop there.
I think a .32 acp is a viable self-defense arm especially when carried concealed. Sure, have a .45 acp or a .357 or 5.56 at the ready at the bedside...why not right? But a .32 Walther PP is going to be easy to shoot and very reliable as well as more carryable. I would be a fool to say that there are not several 9mms that are just about the same size as a PP.
Tanshanomi
Member
A Savage 1907 is on my bucket list.
HoosierQ
Member
Oh. That's what I mean. Some of the coolest guns ever came in .32 acp/7.65 Browning!!!A Savage 1907 is on my bucket list.
OP
OP
WestKentucky
Member
We're there ever p08 luger made in 32acp? .30 luger seems close but not quite the same, and much less interesting for some odd reason.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
Sure there is. But they kick like a mule and I can't keep those teeny tiny little 9mm's and .45's on target and get consistent, accurate hits like I can with my custom Colt in .32. That little Colt goes bang, bang, bang, bang at 4X per second even when I'm dancing sideways and leaves a group I can cover with my 4" across palm.
If I was a Bad Guy? I'd not want to be anywhere near me with that Colt in my hand...those little Bees penetrate to 17" with my hand loads and I don't think I'm quite bad enough to walk away from a volley of those.
Just sayin'...
VooDoo
Onward Allusion
Member
I'm a big fan of the 32 caliber and not just in ACP. If you're looking for an old school .32 ACP, I'd vote for the CZ50 or CZ70. Got both of 'em. Smooth shooting pistols. Being steel, completely restorable.
I know where a couple are for sale.
Biggest problem with this gun and major reason why I have never added one to my collection is finding good quality factory original spare magazines.
Apparently the gun came with just the one magazine, the Banner ads for the pistol exclaimed "Ten Rounds Quick!" and most folks of the era felt that was plenty sufficient for a good gun fight.
Consequently, it appears that not many spare magazines were ever made or sold for these pistols regardless of actual the Model.
When one Does come across a good OEM spare, which is extremely rare, the darned things are always priced $100+ and no negotiating...
HoosierQ
Member
Are you referring specifically to the Savage or all of these .32s? I could easily see either being the case in terms of scarcity. I think if I had one good mag I'd be happy. More than one would of course be a big plus but not so much so that I'd choose not to carry one. I would want one more for problems that a combat reload. This is a consideration...when I carry a modern pistol there's always a spare mag loaded on me somewhere.
HoosierQ
Member
What are you fellows liking for factory ammo? I am reading good things about RWS, Geco, and Fiocchi. Apparently their FMJs are 73 grains going about 1,000 to 1,100 fps. Loaded to original European standards where the 7.65 Browning was a very popular LE and Military cartridge for a pretty fair proportion of the 20th Century.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I shoot hand loads almost exclusively but have shot and prefer (for .32 acp) S&B, Fiocchi, and Buffalo Bore. I based my .32 SD round on Buffalo Bores offering and use the same bullet which is Rim Rock's hard cast 75 gr. flat nose.
After reading some ballistics testing on .32 and watching some videos I settled on the Buffalo Bore .32 as my preference but YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKDnLLUd-Y
No matter what our feelings are about the .32, it cannot be considered optimal for SD any more than .380 could be. It is anemic and getting expansion and requisite penetration is going to be tricky. The shorter the barrel that harder it becomes. If I had to have hollow points in this caliber I'd choose the Fiocchi Extrema featuring Hornady's 60 gr. XTP bullet as they get about a foot of penetration for me out of a 3 3/4" barreled Colt Pocket Hammerless and manage to get some expansion most of the time. Here's some more stuff:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/32ACP/32 ACP.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-APtfWivQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx-vFIZqOjk
And a rather good past thread about .32 from THR!
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-593304.html
Not a powerful round by any means, I think much of the .32's dismal performance claims are due to folks shooting American .32 acp like Winchester in tiny little beasts with short barrels. European or "hot" .32 in a longer barrel/full size gun is almost a completely different animal.
VooDoo
After reading some ballistics testing on .32 and watching some videos I settled on the Buffalo Bore .32 as my preference but YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKDnLLUd-Y
No matter what our feelings are about the .32, it cannot be considered optimal for SD any more than .380 could be. It is anemic and getting expansion and requisite penetration is going to be tricky. The shorter the barrel that harder it becomes. If I had to have hollow points in this caliber I'd choose the Fiocchi Extrema featuring Hornady's 60 gr. XTP bullet as they get about a foot of penetration for me out of a 3 3/4" barreled Colt Pocket Hammerless and manage to get some expansion most of the time. Here's some more stuff:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/32ACP/32 ACP.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-APtfWivQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx-vFIZqOjk
And a rather good past thread about .32 from THR!
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-593304.html
Not a powerful round by any means, I think much of the .32's dismal performance claims are due to folks shooting American .32 acp like Winchester in tiny little beasts with short barrels. European or "hot" .32 in a longer barrel/full size gun is almost a completely different animal.
VooDoo
Last edited:
Candyman87
Member
I mostly shoot Winchester White Box .32 ACP but mostly for the brass... I like Winchester brass.
I just got 500 rounds of S&B for a good deal. Now that I'll have tons of S&B brass that'll make its way into the rotation.
But that being said most of the handgun ammo I shoot is hand loads.
I just got 500 rounds of S&B for a good deal. Now that I'll have tons of S&B brass that'll make its way into the rotation.
But that being said most of the handgun ammo I shoot is hand loads.
usp9
Member
If I were to carry something other than my cherished Seecamp in .32acp, it would be the Sig P230, (the P232 was not chambered in .32). I prefer the Sig over the Walthers because there is a substantial weight difference and the Sig has much better sights.
I would look for a Beretta model 82, for it's slimmer profile. I did for years carry a model 84. An excellent pistol.
I'd search for a Sphinx AT-32. Very compact and reliable.
Here's a Walther PP with a Sig P230, both in .32acp. Very similar.
I would look for a Beretta model 82, for it's slimmer profile. I did for years carry a model 84. An excellent pistol.
I'd search for a Sphinx AT-32. Very compact and reliable.
Here's a Walther PP with a Sig P230, both in .32acp. Very similar.
HoosierQ
Member
I forgot S&B. If I do manage to "join the .32 club" it will be with a West German PP I have a line one. Currently a safe queen with a guy who can't decide whether to pour his money into guns or radio equipment...he's on a radio kick right now.
I have a Glock 19 that is my primary carry weapon. About 50/50 more likely with a S&W 642 shooting .38 +P. But given the reliability that the .32/7.65 PP brings, and the classic all steel coolness, I am considering getting it into the rotation.
I will probably stick with FMJ for penetration...something I would NOT do with 9mm.
I have a Glock 19 that is my primary carry weapon. About 50/50 more likely with a S&W 642 shooting .38 +P. But given the reliability that the .32/7.65 PP brings, and the classic all steel coolness, I am considering getting it into the rotation.
I will probably stick with FMJ for penetration...something I would NOT do with 9mm.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
Dude, I am *drooling* over that Sig P230. Every time I had the money there were none available. Every time I have seen one for sale, I never had the money.
OK. Maybe there is one more .32 on the list for me yet.
VooDoo
OK. Maybe there is one more .32 on the list for me yet.
VooDoo
.32 ACP fans should keep in mind that most pistols that are chambered for this cartridge are designed around John Browning's straight blowback system.
That means that the breech is not locked. The only thing that holds the slide into battery is the weight of the slide, tension of the recoil spring, and in some cases a rotating hammer backed by the main spring.
So obviously, relatively small pocket pistols of this kind - especially elderly ones - should not be used with extra hot loads - either factory or hand loaded.
The result in extreme cases can be a battered or cracked slide and/or frame. In any case, those that are shot on a regular basis should occasionally be fitted with a new, heavy duty recoil spring, firing pin spring, and possibly a coil mainspring - depending on what it had in the first place.
It is true that European rounds are loaded to higher pressures then domestic ones, but it is equally true that production of this class of handguns was not cut short by our 1968 GCA, and as a consequence are made to handle they're currently produced ammunition.
If one is determined to match hot loads with older guns keep a sharp eye out for any signs of battering between the slide and frame.
That means that the breech is not locked. The only thing that holds the slide into battery is the weight of the slide, tension of the recoil spring, and in some cases a rotating hammer backed by the main spring.
So obviously, relatively small pocket pistols of this kind - especially elderly ones - should not be used with extra hot loads - either factory or hand loaded.
The result in extreme cases can be a battered or cracked slide and/or frame. In any case, those that are shot on a regular basis should occasionally be fitted with a new, heavy duty recoil spring, firing pin spring, and possibly a coil mainspring - depending on what it had in the first place.
It is true that European rounds are loaded to higher pressures then domestic ones, but it is equally true that production of this class of handguns was not cut short by our 1968 GCA, and as a consequence are made to handle they're currently produced ammunition.
If one is determined to match hot loads with older guns keep a sharp eye out for any signs of battering between the slide and frame.
Deaf Smith
Member
Well I saw a Beretta 1935 (like the 1934 .380 military but in .32 for a good price.
It was not a GI gun (as mine is.. 1941 9mm Corto) but the Beretta is strong as a tank and will last for ever. It was made in 1949 I think. Maybe the next gunshow it will show up. It had the original magazine to, all metal with metal follower.
Deaf
It was not a GI gun (as mine is.. 1941 9mm Corto) but the Beretta is strong as a tank and will last for ever. It was made in 1949 I think. Maybe the next gunshow it will show up. It had the original magazine to, all metal with metal follower.
Deaf
wlewisiii
Member
Mauser HSc. Finest of the bunch
Tanshanomi
Member
There's also the .25NAA Guardian. A .32 case necked down for a .25ACP bullet.
20% more muzzle energy than .32ACP hollow points.
I think it's an impressive and innovative concept. Although, if I was buying a .32 it would be simply to have one of those older C&R .32s in my collection, which are much cooler, more elegant guns. As far as modern guns go, I can't imagine I would enjoy any of NAA's DAO autos as much I like my .22WMR Black Widow mini-revolver.
And personally speaking, I already have a .22TCM and .357SIG, so I am already spending all I care to on weirdo bottleneck rounds, thank you.
20% more muzzle energy than .32ACP hollow points.
I think it's an impressive and innovative concept. Although, if I was buying a .32 it would be simply to have one of those older C&R .32s in my collection, which are much cooler, more elegant guns. As far as modern guns go, I can't imagine I would enjoy any of NAA's DAO autos as much I like my .22WMR Black Widow mini-revolver.
And personally speaking, I already have a .22TCM and .357SIG, so I am already spending all I care to on weirdo bottleneck rounds, thank you.
Of all the handguns I've sold or traded over the years, the only one I'm considering replacing is the Beretta 3032 Tomcat I had. I really liked that little pocket gun. I only sold it because it was an early one, and they were prone to the frame cracking where the barrel tipped up. Mine didn't, but I didn't want to risk it. I'd like a newer one with the beefier frame.
I just got a 1903 Colt, made in 1910, that I really like.
It's funny, I have a cop buddy that works in a nearby city, he's told me he's seen more people killed with .32 & .380 than any other caliber. Go figure.
I just got a 1903 Colt, made in 1910, that I really like.
It's funny, I have a cop buddy that works in a nearby city, he's told me he's seen more people killed with .32 & .380 than any other caliber. Go figure.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I think there are more .380's and .32's out there than many of us think. That might be the reason some folks see quite a few shootings involving these calibers. Where I shoot, the local range and gun store? They tell me that there are an awful lot of smaller caliber guns being shot and bought.
I'm always amazed when I sweep up all the range brass close to me and take it home and sort it out how much .32 and .380 I have inherited. I'm not the only one shooting .32 - half the brass I have for reloading I picked up off the floor when I wasn't shooting .32 that session.
VooDoo
I'm always amazed when I sweep up all the range brass close to me and take it home and sort it out how much .32 and .380 I have inherited. I'm not the only one shooting .32 - half the brass I have for reloading I picked up off the floor when I wasn't shooting .32 that session.
VooDoo
- Status
