SCAR 16: overpriced?

I actually haven't had the opportunity to try out a Garand. I'm only into my 4th year of gun interest. As much as I'd like to get a Garand, their cost seems prohibitory right now because of school and new baby. I'm hoping that the Korean ones can come home at a decent price.

Bet you feel bad now, talking down to someone who hasn't been able to shoot such a cool rifle. Lol.

Yes. It doesn't do anything a $500 AR-15 does do.

Bet you feel bad now, talking down to someone who hasn't been able to shoot such a cool rifle. Lol.

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My local range has CMP Garand loaner rifles that they will rent for matches. A low fee covers the use of a rifle and ammo.

BSW

If you can't afford it, its simply that--you can't afford it.

Value is relative. If you think its a superb rifle, then yes its worth it. If you think its a piece of junk, then its not worth more than a typical AR15.

Let me put it this way in a comparative form:

Is an $80k Range Rover SUV much better than a $25K Ford Explorer or Jeep Cherokee?

Or is a $1000 Trijicon ACOG better than a $200 Vortex Optic??


Finally, What do the professionals or the rich people use?

Brian wasn't talking down to anyone, just explaining the way things are. Using the support hand to charge the weapon and change the mag is a rather new concept to the American shooter. Even the AR was originally conceived to be operated by the strong hand- most of the rifles designed in the post war era were. The FAL and the CETME/HK patterns are two exceptions.

The AK puts all the controls close to the shooter's right hand. Certainly, locking the AR bolt back without a mag is is s goat rope at best even with ambidextrous controls, but overall, manipulating the controls and problem solving is easier than with an AK.

The location of the AR controls make sense to me. Mag release right there at the mag and can be reached by the trigger finger and bolt release right there where the follower holds the bolt open. Just press the paddle and go, whether the mag is empty or full. No need to haul back on the charging handle.

However, all I said was the SCAR and the AK were built on preexisting technologies and the AK has a couple of areas that are poorly conceived. Neither rifle is a technological wonder, but the AK did change the world.

I do think the AR is a greater leap forward in technology than any post war rifle or any rifle designed and fielded since. Yes, there were better technologies available when the AR was designed, but none could match what was used in cost, ease of manufacture, performance and durability and that's still true today. The AR is another rifle that changed the world.

The AR used- and still uses- modern quality control techniques that made the rifle easier to assemble than any other and it's design and the use of modern materials allow it, pound for pound out perform any other design and handle heat better.

(None of this means an army equipped with ARs is going to be superior to an army with SCARs or AKs. I am discussing what each rifle brought to the world at the time of their introduction. While the SCAR is as fine of a weapon as any, it is just that- another fine weapon)

justice06rr said:

If you can't afford it, its simply that--you can't afford it.

Value is relative. If you think its a superb rifle, then yes its worth it. If you think its a piece of junk, then its not worth more than a typical AR15

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You think junk rifles are worth as much as a typical AR?

When a well built AR has all the practical performance of a Scar for around $900 instead of $2000, yes the Scar is over priced. If it performed at a $2000 level, then it would make sense. For $2000 it better shoot sub moa reliably, have a match grade trigger, weigh in the 6lb region, the ability to remove the cheese graters from the forearm, etc.

I distinctly put "lol" at the end of my sentence indicating I was joking. I didn't think he was talking down to me. I was hamming up being the victim, no insult was taken and no feelings were hurt.

M-Cameron said:

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it....

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The term you hear most of term is, "Whatever the market will bear". I could ask the same as the OP with regard to Apple products. To me they're just not worth their price and are, therefore; extremely low value products. Obviously, I'm just not in the Apple load bearing market.

If the SCAR 16 is within your affordable price range, has the features you want and does what you want it to do, it's not overpriced for you.

Would you run a Garand w/o taking your right hand off the grip? * * *

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I actually haven't had the opportunity to try out a Garand. I'm only into my 4th year of gun interest. * * *

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Since the subject of "how to run" an M1 Garand got mentioned, I thought I'd post this YouTube link. Check out the guy doing manipulation drills with his M1 Garand in this vid. He's demonstrating the Olongapo M1 clip pouch, and how it enables rather fast "tactical reloads," so if you want to, skip the Intro part and go to about the 1:07 mark. He does both strong-side & weak-side simulation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj10btlb6HM

Owning several M1s, as well as an 18" 7.62 Tanker, I can assure that you any one of them is 100x cooler than any SCAR or, for matter, any of my ARs, and none of them costed $2000 either.

And whether chambered in 30.06 or .308/7.62, they can still be effective weapons.

Just sayin' ...

MachIVshooter said:

That's entirely subjective. Personally, I don't care for the 17 at all. My preference in order is:

1: .308 AR
1 (tie): FAL
3: M1A
4: SCAR
4.1: CETME/G3

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I've never held a comparable AR-10 that was lighter than a SCAR, and I have never held a FAL that was comparable to the SCAR that was lighter and had a better trigger.

SCAR is the best .308 BR out there bar none.

valnar said:

There are a lot of players in that field. The aforementioned PWS is another good option, although they are around the same price.

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It's heavier by 13oz. SCAR is 8lb, the PWS is 8lb 130z. Then add an optic to it and all the other stuff and so on...

M-Cameron said:

yes, because god forbid anyone buy something just because they like it......


people can buy $300 pocket knives.....$200 flashlights......$150 gun grips.......$200 holsters.....all without people batting an eye.....

but a guy buying a $2500 gun is a "fool".....right.....

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At the end of the day its still shoots a 5.56mm out of a 16" barrel... Why pay $1000 more than anything else that does the same? I love the SCAR, but for 5.56mm, it just costs too much.

agtman said:

In weight, for sure. Having handled it, the ergonomics of the SCAR-17 aren't superior to my LMT LM8.

Accuracy? I'll put my LM8's 18" SS SPR tube up against the SCAR tube at 300yds anyday.

Then there's the mags. My 7.62 LM8 takes the SR-25 mags, such as the 10-and 20-rounders MagPul makes in abundance and for a reasonable price.

SCAR-17 mags are harder to find and spendier than the MagPuls when you do.

If money is no object in a .30-cal AR-platform that's intended to be a range toy only, then get the SCAR.

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IMO, ergonomics are all the same between the two having shot them. Don't even really understand the point seeing as the controls are all in the same place. The only real difference is handguard space which is subjectively useful.

LM8 in .308 weighs 10lb out of the box. To be fair though, it does have 2 more inches of bbl to it.

Accuracy wise, I would hope a... what? $5000 rifle? Shoots a bit better than a $2500-3000 one...

I'll give you the point on the magazines, but SCAR 17 mags aren't really hard to find anymore at reasonable prices.

Honestly, if you want a range toy that weighs about as much as a gold brick and costs as much as one, get an LM8... if you want a proven battle rifle, get a SCAR. (see what I did there?)

HOOfan_1 said:

I remember when the Bushmaster ACR first came out and people complained it was way overpriced. It seems to have come down in price though.

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Yeah, that will happen when a company completely abandons a weapon system and fails to deliver on promises there. The Magpul Masada was a wonderful idea... the ACR was a bastard child. Which is sad because by all accounts, it generally was well-received.

Yeah, that will happen when a company completely abandons a weapon system and fails to deliver on promises there. The Magpul Masada was a wonderful idea... the ACR was a bastard child. Which is sad because by all accounts, it generally was well-received.

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Several rifles have come and gone in the attempt to replace the M4/16, I just don't think the armed forces will ever replace it until there's a significant jump in technology. As previously mentioned, there have been rifles that outperformed the M4/16 platform, just not well enough to justify the costs. I think a change in caliber is possible though. There's more people that desire a little more oomph than the 5.56 brings and several calibers have came in that would only require changing a barrel (300 BLK) or a barrel and a bolt (6.8 SPC).

people are mad that the ACR doesn't have other caliber barrels as promised...but the SCAR doesn't have that either, so I am not sure why that is a point against the ACR.

HOOfan_1 said:

people are mad that the ACR doesn't have other caliber barrels as promised...but the SCAR doesn't have that either, so I am not sure why that is a point against the ACR.

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Because Bushmaster promised that for the ACR. FNH never made those promises. It's better to promise nothing and then deliver than it is to promise something and never deliver.

People bought the ACR on an assumption that new barrels and calibers would be available, and now they feel duped.

fanchisimo said:

Several rifles have come and gone in the attempt to replace the M4/16, I just don't think the armed forces will ever replace it until there's a significant jump in technology. As previously mentioned, there have been rifles that outperformed the M4/16 platform, just not well enough to justify the costs. I think a change in caliber is possible though. There's more people that desire a little more oomph than the 5.56 brings and several calibers have came in that would only require changing a barrel (300 BLK) or a barrel and a bolt (6.8 SPC).

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Agreed. People bought the ACR on that promise of caliber change, but are now left out in the cold. For all intents and purposes, the ACR is a "dead" platform.

* * *The only real difference is handguard space which is subjectively useful.

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No, the real, critical difference between LMT's LM8 (or MWS) and the SCAR-17 is, the former two being built on MRP platforms, you can swap out barrels on them in minutes, as was explained. Remember, reading through a thread helps minimize the repetition of points previously made, ... just sayin'.

I'll give you the point on the magazines, but SCAR 17 mags aren't really hard to find anymore at reasonable prices.

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Define "reasonable." $40- $50 for a SCAR-17 mag? No thanks. Got my 7.62 MagPuls on sale at Brownell's for way less.

Honestly, if you want a range toy that weighs about as much as a gold brick and costs as much as one, get an LM8... if you want a proven battle rifle, get a SCAR. (see what I did there?)

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Of course, and you're still wrong. The SCAR-17 isn't "battle-proven" anywhere, except to rich kids playing weekend "range warrior," whereas the Brits adopted the MWS MRP (full-rail model) as their 7.62 battle rifle - which was right after the MWS beat all its competitors in hard-use field trials. Oh, I forgot, the SCAR never made it to that battlefield. Oh, well ....

Accuracy wise, I would hope a... what? $5000 rifle? Shoots a bit better than a $2500-3000 one..

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Dude, try some basic research rather than guessing ...

The LM8 model I have is $2250 - and worth every dime, given its capabilities.

See: http://www.lmtstore.com/5-56-modular-weapon-system.html

Another sour point with the ACR is that people saw the specs for the Magpul Masada and got their hopes up. What Bushmaster delivered wasn't the Masada. Pretty much all the design compromises that Bushmaster made with the ACR were obviously to cut costs, and it showed.

Similar problem with the Sig USA 556. Sig USA cut features of the Swiss Sig 55x kind to make a cheaper rifle and they irritated a lot of people.

BSW

agtman said:

No, the real, critical difference between LMT's LM8 (or MWS) and the SCAR-17 is, the former two being built on MRP platforms, you can swap out barrels on the LM8/MWS in minutes, as was explained. Remember, reading through a thread helps minimize repetition of points previously made, ... just sayin'.

Define "reasonable." $40- $50 for a SCAR-17 mag? No thanks. Got my 7.62 MagPuls on sale at Brownell's for way less.

Of course, and you're still wrong. The SCAR-17 isn't "battle-proven" anywhere, except to rich kids playing weekend "range warrior," whereas the Brits adopted the MWS MRP (full-rail model) as their 7.62 battle rifle.

That was right after the MWS beat all its competitors in hard-use field trial. Oh, I forgot, the SCAR never made it to that battlefield. Oh, well ....



Dude, try some basic research rather than guessing ...

The LM8 model I have is $2250 - and worth every dime, given its capabilities.

See: http://www.lmtstore.com/5-56-modular-weapon-system.html

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1. I can swap a SCAR 17 barrel in about 5 minutes with a torque wrench... don't see the advantage in LMT's system which uses the same damn thing...

2. $40-50 per mag? More like $30-40 if you know where to look. Like I said, I'll concede this point to you. I don't mind the mag cost if it nets me a lighter, more accurate, combat rifle.

3.

Of course, and you're still wrong. The SCAR-17 isn't "battle-proven" anywhere, except to rich kids playing weekend "range warrior," whereas the Brits adopted the MWS MRP (full-rail model) as their 7.62 battle rifle.

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Except, you know, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kenya, etc. Also in use by the Army SOCOM and plenty of other military units. So, yeah, "battle proven" fits the bill.

The SCAR not being an entry for the DMR competition probably has more to do with contract requirements versus much else.

Besides, that's what? One or two wins for the LMT? In the very narrow role of a DMR? SCARs are issued far more frequently by many more military units globally.

4. That's for the 5.56 plinker variant... and even that is approaching the cost of a .308 SCAR-17. The .308 variant (the apt comparison to make) is like $5000...

4. That's for the 5.56 plinker variant... and even that is approaching the cost of a .308 SCAR-17. The .308 variant (the apt comparison to make) is like $5000

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Ooops, my bad. Thanks for catching that.

Here's the link to the 7.62 LM8 model I bought. I see LMT increased the price from what I paid, which was under $3,000 a couple of years back.

Still, not $5,000 though.

http://www.lmtstore.com/308-modular-weapon-system-269.html

agtman said:

Ooops, my bad. Thanks for catching that.

Here's the link to the 7.62 LM8 model I bought. I see LMT increased the price from what I paid, which was under $3,000 a couple of years back.

Still, not $5,000 though.

http://www.lmtstore.com/308-modular-weapon-system-269.html

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Yeah, you kept saying SS 18" and I thought you referred to this one: http://www.lmtstore.com/complete-we...m308ss-sharp-shooter-rifle-weapon-system.html

But still, $3k is quite a lot.

If you want crazy prices look at HK's 762 NATO AR version.

It makes a SCAR 17 look like the low cost option.

BSW