Can Level IIIA armor stop .357 mag fired from a carbine?

1) The National Institute of Justice protection levels are based on projectile diameter, composition, weight, and velocity, not the various calibers. Although, people continue to state things like: "...will stop .357 Magnum...", if you actually read the label, it says things like: "... .357 JSP, 158 gr, 1205 fps, 4 hits at 0° -4, BSF depth - 1.73", 2 hits at 30°..."

2) Penetration is not the only criteria. A bullet can be completely stopped by the armor, but the armor can fail to be rated against that threat. There is a maximum "Back Face Signature" (BSF), this is the maximum the back of the armor can protrude in to a clay block after being hit. If the BSF is high enough, even without penetration, it can kill you.

3) Result are not surprising.

The problem with all of your tests is targeting. As the US Special Forces are taught to aim for head shots that is also my practice, and probably many others. All the body armor in the world won't stop a head shot.......

Steel Horse Rider said:

The problem with all of your tests is targeting. As the US Special Forces are taught to aim for head shots that is also my practice, and probably many others. All the body armor in the world won't stop a head shot.......

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1) This statement contributes nothing to the dialogue.
2) This statement is incorrect. Modern military still trains to shoot center mass - in fact any torso or head hit is considered a 'hit' for qualification purposes.
3) Body armor covers an estimate of 40-70% of vitals that would otherwise result in non-survivable shots. It is extremely effective. Most people are unable to aim and hit the head reliably. Sure head shots occur but are probably more freak than planned.

Steel Horse Rider said:

The problem with all of your tests is targeting. As the US Special Forces are taught to aim for head shots that is also my practice, and probably many others. All the body armor in the world won't stop a head shot.......

Click to expand...

1) This statement contributes nothing to the dialogue.
2) This statement is incorrect. Modern military still trains to shoot center mass - in fact any torso or head hit is considered a 'hit' for qualification purposes.
3) Body armor covers an estimate of 40-70% of vitals that would otherwise result in non-survivable shots. It is extremely effective. Most people are unable to aim and hit the head reliably. Sure head shots occur but are probably more freak than planned.

I thought this was an interesting test and informative. Thanks for demonstrating it.

chopinbloc said:

Jeff, a 16" barrel only brings a 9mm to about .357 mag (from a revolver) and .40 only comes up to about 10mm (from a pistol). Take a look at ballistics by the inch for more precise figures.

Click to expand...

But, bullet type also plays into the equation...

Protective vests are not "Guaranteed" to stop anything. They are tested to certain levels with certain bullet diameters and type at certain velocities.

Start varying the bullet velocity and type, all bets are off.

The Russians made a 39 gr 5.45mm (~.22 cal) bullet with a Vm of 1000 fps that can defeat a level II vest. A normal .22 LR usually shoots a 38 gr bullet at 1200 fps, and cannot defeat a Level II vest.

Now that the experts have put me in my place I will go tell my nephews (one retired Delta Operator and one active duty Green Beret Sergeant Major) that they have lied to me and that some guy on the internet said so. It has to be true.......

I understand the point of your videos and find them very entertaining, but they will soon become talking points for some fan boy in support of his chosen caliber. All I was doing was pointing out that a vest does not make one superman.

Now that the experts have put me in my place I will go tell my nephews (one retired Delta Operator and one active duty Green Beret Sergeant Major) that they have lied to me and that some guy on the internet said so. It has to be true.......

I understand the point of your videos and find them very entertaining, but they will soon become talking points for some fan boy in support of his chosen caliber. All I was doing was pointing out that a vest does not make one a superman.....

chopinbloc said:

Jeff, a 16" barrel only brings a 9mm to about .357 mag (from a revolver) and .40 only comes up to about 10mm (from a pistol). Take a look at ballistics by the inch for more precise figures.

Click to expand...

And that is why I think they don't make a .357 Sig carbine. Bet it might make the threshold velocity needed to penetrate.

Deaf

Absence of a .357 SIG carbine is more likely a marketplace artifact.

Pick an easy-to-rebarrel .40 S&W carbine, find a good gunsmith, pay some money. Suitable barrel blanks are available.

not so, there is plenty of armor available against headshots

http://www.bluedefense.com/ballistic-face-masks/ballistic-face-mask-half-threat-level-3a.html

https://www.botach.com/united-level-iiia-ballistic-face-shield-retro-fit/

add a kevlar helmet to either of those, and you're good to go. kevlar neck protection is available as well;

http://www.galls.com/galls-level-ii...ial-mission-galls-ballistic-vest#.VcC4yPkYF7c

http://www.interamer.com/ballisticneckandshoulderprotectionleveliiia.aspx




it's out there, i have most of the equipment above including iiia pants, for all intents and purposes if you felt like weighing an extra 50lbs it's possible to have full-body iiia protection. but since it's useless against rifles...