“… splitting into two parties: the party of Clinton, and the party of Deanâ€

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w4rma

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The Democratic Party: Outside In
(The New Republic) This commentary from The New Republic was written by Ryan Lizza.

It is easy to think the presidential race has reached a tipping point. One week, assured by his supporters that they will raise all the money he needs, Howard Dean skips out of the restrictive federal matching-funds system. The next, he formally accepts the endorsements of the two most politically powerful unions in the country: the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. And soon, according to an aide, his campaign will unveil a group of foreign policy luminaries who had been advising several candidates but have recently decided to back only Dean. The Dean campaign seems to be shedding the last vestiges of insurgency, aiming to build a sense of inevitability and end the race early with decisive victories in Iowa and New Hampshire, like Al Gore in 2000.

But, for all of his newfound respectability, the buzz from numerous Washington Democrats in the wake of Dean's extraordinary two weeks has been a hardening of opposition rather than a cascade of previously reluctant supporters endorsing the governor. "My sense is that this isn't tipping anyone towards Dean," says a top Beltway Democrat with ties to the Dean campaign. "The overwhelming majority here in Washington are more worried." Instead of consolidating support within the party establishment, Dean is polarizing it.

The division in the party over Dean is less about ideology than about power. Three years after Bill Clinton left office, he and Hillary still control what remains of a Democratic establishment. Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), was installed by Clinton. Most of the powerful new fund-raising groups, known as 527s, and the new think tanks, such as the Center for American Progress, are run by the best and brightest of the Clinton administration. As "National Journal" noted in a detailed look at what it called "Hillary Inc.," the senator's network of fund-raising organizations "has begun to assume a quasi-party status." And some of the best Clinton talent is heavily invested in non-Dean campaigns, especially Joe Lieberman's (Mandy Grunwald and Mark Penn), John Edwards's (Bruce Reed), and Wesley Clark's (Bruce Lindsey, Eli Segal, and Mickey Kantor).

Dean, by contrast, has come to represent the party's anti-establishment forces. While the other candidates, especially former self-styled front-runner John Kerry, started the campaign by wooing party leaders, Dean built a grassroots army first -- in part by bashing D.C. Democrats and their disastrous 2002 election strategy -- and is only now leveraging his fund-raising power to win over establishment types. No Democrats closely associated with the Clintons are working for the Dean campaign. In fact, it's hard to find a Clintonite who speaks favorably of the former Vermont governor. This evident schism is not just about Dean's opposition to the war -- or even his prospects in the general election. It's a turf war to decide who will control the future of the party.

This struggle is playing out in several of the party's organizations and constituencies. Indeed, Dean's high-profile labor endorsements -- the cornerstone of the tipping-point argument -- actually emphasize the party's divisions. Andy Stern, the leader of SEIU, is to the labor movement what Dean is to the Democratic Party -- an anti-establishment reformer. When the AFL-CIO failed to adopt reforms recommended by Stern earlier this year, he started a breakaway organization -- the New Unity Partnership -- with several other unions that is now seen as a major challenge to the AFL-CIO establishment. And SEIU is a lot like the Dean campaign. It's the fastest-growing union and one of the most democratically run. It's obsessed with organizing new members to whom it imparts a message of empowerment, unlike the more centralized AFL-CIO. Stern and SEIU, with their emphasis on health care instead of globalization, are the future of the labor movement in the United States, while the industrial unions, which back Dick Gephardt and have been bleeding members for years as they fight an uphill battle against free trade, are the past. SEIU's backing of Dean isn't a nod from the establishment -- it's a protest against it.

The Dean split is mirrored in the centrist New Democrat movement as well. No organization has been more hostile to Dean than the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). In May, Al From and Bruce Reed, the chairman and the president of the DLC -- the group that served as a policy springboard for Clinton's rise -- wrote their now-infamous manifesto warning that nominating Dean, whom they view as hopelessly left-wing, would bring certain defeat for Democrats in 2004. But, for months, another prominent New Democrat has been making a different case. Simon Rosenberg, who cut his teeth on Clinton's 1992 campaign and now heads the New Democrat Network (NDN), sees Dean as the most innovative and potentially transformative Democrat since Clinton himself. Like Stern, Rosenberg is a bit of a rebel within his own movement. He once worked for From, but his organization is now challenging the DLC and is becoming an increasingly influential player in Democratic politics. Unlike the more top-down DLC, NDN is building a grassroots network of donors and has become a key player in the new world of 527s. "NDN has not endorsed Dean or embraced him, but we have given our opinion that this is a serious campaign that is going to change the party," says Rosenberg.

As the party's split into Deaniacs and anti-Dean Clintonites unfolds, one of the most intriguing subplots concerns the machinations of Gore. Immediately after the Florida recount was decided in 2000, Gore's senior aides were purged from the DNC and Clinton's were installed. Some ex-Gore staffers are still bitter about the coup, and several express admiration for what Dean is doing.

The two men have a strained history, but lately Gore is sounding more and more like Dean. His three most important speeches since leaving office have been harsh attacks on President Bush's Iraq policy and his abuse of the Patriot Act. The two most recent were delivered before MoveOn.org, the Internet network for grassroots liberals, which is overwhelmingly pro-Dean. Some suspect that, just as Dean went outside the Beltway and built his own high-tech grassroots army to bypass the sclerotic D.C. establishment, so is Gore. It's not a bad way for him to exercise influence in the party, if he wants to make a potential endorsement more powerful or if he still harbors hopes of running for president in 2008. "The rest of the Democratic infrastructure is controlled by the Clintons," says one top Democrat.

Perhaps Gore would not endorse the former Vermont governor (though Joe Trippi, Dean's campaign manager, says "they talk relatively regularly"). Regardless, he'll have to choose sides, because the Democrats are splitting into two parties: the party of Clinton, and the party of Dean.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/13/opinion/main583484.shtml

This article appears highly accurate to me. I thought some of you guys might find it enlightening, also. Note, that Al Gore seems to be falling on the Dean side of the apparent split.
 
Where is the firearms-related content?

Moderators, where is the firearms-related content?

Isn't Dean the one that was NRA-endorsed, but since running for the Democratic nomination, finally is saying that it should be decided by the states?
:barf:

Pretty disingenious of him.
 
Living in California, you should know how closely elected politicians and the Democratic Party are related to firearms. Can't believe how you guys put up with the laws there.
 
Your right Standing Wolf, Howard Dean is more like George McGovern without the courage!

It's starting to look an awful lot like 1972. What do ya' think? Does President Bush take 40 states or 45?
 
Dean is a passionate centrist, Cactus. McGovern is an ideological liberal.

Republican campaigner for 2 Bushes backs Dean
By ANNE SAUNDERS The Associated Press

Concord--Democrat Howard Dean's stance against the war in Iraq has brought him supporters from across party lines in New Hampshire.

Hilary Cleveland of New London, wife of the late congressman James Cleveland, and a prominent campaigner for both President Bushes, is helping organize a Republicans-for-Dean movement.

Dean announced the names of 40 Republicans who will serve on a steering committee. Cleveland says she's been a lifelong Republican, but will switch her party registration to independent so she can vote for Dean in the primary.

Cleveland was the New London co-chair for George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign and was the state finance chair Bush’s father in 1980.

"I have been disappointed in the Bush Administrations policies in Iraq, and Former Gov. Dean has best articulated why we should not have gone to war in Iraq. I like his emphasis on the importance of internationalism and his fiscal program," Cleveland said.

“I’m a moderate Republican and moderate Republicans did stress the need for international involvement in Iraq, and moderate Republicans have always spoken out for fiscal integrity,†she said.
…
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&ArticleID=89839
 
Frohickey, please re-read the title of this forum - Legal & Political. This thread is clearly about a political topic. It's also related to gun rights, in the sense that the Democratic Party has historically been more anti-gun than otherwise, and a new movement in that party might hold implications for RKBA and 2A issues.
 
I wouldn't read too much into Dean and Gore being "on the same side".

The common thread is that they both despise Hillary. Dean over her politics, Gore because the poor SOB had to spend time in close proximity, for which I could almost pity him.

Almost.
 
After 9/11, Dean was quoted in a VT newspaper that we may need to curtail the BOR in the coming days. I read it with my own eyes a few months ago. It was pretty outlandish stuff, very harsh and anti-civil liberties, and would make the Patriot Act look like tiddley winks.

That quote will come back to haunt him if he gets the nomination.
 
Living in California, you should know how closely elected politicians and the Democratic Party are related to firearms. Can't believe how you guys put up with the laws there.

Once and for all, will you all please try to follow this:

We don't put up with it, we accept what happens in a democracy: if 51% of the people ina state want tight gun laws, that's what happens. You can bitch and whine til the cows come home, but that's how democracy works.
 
Originally posted by w4rma:
Dean is a passionate centrist, Cactus. McGovern is an ideological liberal.

Aside from the fact that the term "passionate centrist" is an oxymoron, Dean is anything but a centrist.

Dean has staked out the MOST liberal position of the Democrat candidates regarding Iraq.
Dean supports the Brady Bill and the renewal of the AWB.
Dean supports raising our taxes, including on the lowest income levels.
Dean supports government funded college for ALL who wish to attend.
Dean supports affimative action.
Dean supports partial birth abortion.
Dean supports gays in the military.
Dean supports national health care.
Dean would have the US security dependant upon the UN.

This sounds like George McGovern to me. If you are a leftist and support Dean for President, great! But don't lie to everyone and say that Dean is a "moderate". Even Howard Dean doesn't try to pass himself off as a moderate, i.e. his "I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" line.

Originally posted by w4rma:
Republican campaigner for 2 Bushes backs Dean
By ANNE SAUNDERS The Associated Press

Big deal! Things like that happen every election. Go to the Bush websites and you will find all kinds of "Democrats for Bush" links as well.

What IS different, and notible, is that a serving Democratic US Senator, Zell Miller of Georgia, has announced his support of President Bush's re-election. This has never happened before as far as I know! And if Howard Dean gets the Democratic nomination (which I think, and hope, he will) you will see enormous Democrat defections to re-elect President Bush.

In that case the only suspense in the election of 2004 will be if it's more than 40 states or 45 states for President Bush. Well, that and how many seats the Republicans pick up in the House and Senate.:p
 
Dean supports government funded college for ALL who wish to attend.

Funded? Or subsidized? Subsidized works fine in my country.

Dean supports gays in the military.
We have gays in the military, too.

Dean supports national health care.
So do I.

Dean would have the US security dependant upon the UN.
Reference, please?
 
I agree with MicroBalrog's response to Cactus, above.
That quote will come back to haunt him if he gets the nomination.
Dean charges: Anti-terrorism measures are eroding rights
December 8, 2001
By WILSON RING The Associated Press


MONTPELIER — Gov. Howard Dean says the Bush administration’s anti-terrorism measures are eroding civil rights in the United States, but tough measures are needed during wartime.

Dean said he hadn’t studied all the measures that are being put in place, but he knew the general outline.

“It is discomforting. It is a significant erosion of the Bill of Rights,†Dean said. “This is a war. In war, security issues and the preservation of innocent life is something that rises to the forefront.â€

In any event, the anti-terrorism measures already passed by Congress and those imposed by President Bush with executive orders should only be in force for the short term, said Dean, who is exploring his own race for the White House in 2004.

“It’s not something I’d want to see permanently in place,†Dean said.

He praised Sen.Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, for insisting the anti-terrorism legislation passed by Congress earlier this year expire after four years.

“I think Pat Leahy made a great contribution to the country when he insisted all this stuff be sunsetted,†Dean said.

The governor said some of the Bush administration’s pronouncements in its war on terrorism gave him pause.

On Thursday in a hearing before Leahy’s committee Attorney General John Ashcroft said that anyone who opposed the anti-terror measures was aiding terrorists.

“I am very fearful of how fast John Ashcroft is moving in dismantling (constitutional) protections,†Dean said on Friday.

Many civil libertarians find the Bush administration’s plans to use military tribunals to try terror suspects who are not U.S. citizens to be loathesome.

Some fear suspects could be tried in secret without their own lawyers, suspects would have no appeal and the death penalty could be imposed without review.

But the measures are supported by an overwhelming number of Americans.

“I guess I am keeping an open mind. I am certainly willing to let the president move forward for the short term,†Dean said.

“It’s very important not to let this become permanent.â€

While he said he was uncomfortable with the military tribunals created by the president, Dean said they were only for non-Americans and they were only to deal with security issues.
http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/38802

Gov. Dean: “Fighting terrorism does not mean compromising our freedomsâ€
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_patriotact

Dean campaign: Sign the Petition to Stop Ashcroft
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/...shcroft&JServSessionIdr002=egzno4osu1.app193a
 
Originally posted by MicroBalrog:
Funded? Or subsidized?

FUNDED! Dean supports government funding of $10,000 per year for every college student in the US.

Originally posted by MicroBalrog:
Reference, please?

If you would like a reference to the facts I posted, these facts were taken DIRECTLY from Howard Deans official website.

If Israel chooses to have subsidized education, gays in the military and national health care, that is Israel's choice. I don't care! But I do care about the form of government that America has. And you, as an Israeli should also care if Howard Dean is elected President or not. His officially stated position on the Israeli/Palistinian issue is that America should take a "more balanced approach"!
 
FUNDED! Dean supports government funding of $10,000 per year
for every college student in the US


Groovy!

If Israel chooses to have subsidized education, gays in the military and national health care, that is Israel's choice.

And guess what - it works.

And you, as an Israeli should also care if Howard Dean is elected President or not.


I should. He'll change immigration policies and let me in.:D
 
Hey MB, if all of those things that Dean wants to do to America work so well in Israel, why do you want to move to the US?:confused:
 
FUNDED! Dean supports government funding of $10,000 per year for every college student in the US.
Erase Your Student Loans the Howard Dean Way
Candidate’s $7.1 Billion Vision for a Diploma in Every Pot

On Wednesday, Howard Dean’s campaign unveiled a revolutionary—some would say radical—proposal for lowering the cost of college in America, while at the same time encouraging a fresh wave of national service. In a speech at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire on Thursday, the Democratic frontrunner is expected to announce details of a sweeping plan he claims will guarantee "every young person access to an affordable four-year college education."

The "College Commitment," as the policy is called, promises that all students will have access to $10,000 annually for college, provided in a mix of grants and loans, depending on family earnings. After school, students would make regular payments on the full debt, but they’d receive a tax credit at the end of each year for any amount they’d paid over 10 percent of their income. That way, the campaign argues, no one would ever pay out more than 10 percent of their earnings, or have to make payments for more than a decade.

Working retroactively, the policy would apply to anyone with outstanding loans, even people who graduated years ago. It wouldn’t cover the expense of graduate school.

Dean's campaign estimates the program will cost $7.1 billion annually, money the former Vermont governor says can be raised by rolling back what his strategists term President Bush's "reckless" tax cuts.

In return for the public support, Dean plans to ask students, beginning in the eighth grade, to "work hard in high school" and to commit to college. His vision also calls for a large expansion of the Clinton-era Americorps program, from 50,000 positions to 250,000. Finally, it pledges that graduates who enter public service—becoming police officers or teachers, for example--will pay no more than 7 percent of their annual income toward school loans.

"This has the potential to revolutionize financial aid in this country," said Bob Shireman, a policy analyst at the Aspen Institute who consulted with the Dean campaign. And while he concedes that the plan is ambitious, Shireman says the Dean proposal strikes at the "fear" that accompanies the now complicated financial aid process.

According to a new study by the College Board, the annual costs for a year at a public university are $10,636. The fees for private schools are more than double that amount. Last year, American students received an average of $9,100 in financial aid, much of it loans. While Dean campaign staffers emphasize that the policy is intended to appeal to voters under 30, analysts point out that it stands to draw support from a much larger pool, that of poor and middle-income parents whose kids aren’t yet in college. That group includes the families of nearly 2 million Latino children expected to start college in the next decade.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0347/fahim.php

His officially stated position on the Israeli/Palistinian issue is that America should take a "more balanced approach"!
…
When he said the U.S. must be "evenhanded" in the Middle East, rivals and critics accused him of selling out the Jewish state -- even though his position is similar to Bush's and his campaign co-chair used to run AIPAC.
…
What made the uproar so odd is that Dean's Israel policy hardly differs from that of Bush and his main Democratic challengers. His campaign is being co-chaired by Steven Grossman, who from 1992 to 1996 was president of AIPAC, America's most powerful pro-Israel lobby. While Dean vehemently criticizes Bush on a range of issues, when it comes to Israel, he told an audience at Iowa's Drake University in February, "The administration's guiding principles in the Middle East are the right ones. Terrorism against Israel must end. A two-state solution is the only path to eventual peace, but Palestinian territory cannot have the capability of being used as a platform for attacking Israel."
…
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/23/dean_israel/index_np.html

Presidential Candidate Dean, Rep. Nancy Pelosi Find They Agree on U.S. Role in Middle East

WASHINGTON Sept. 12 —

House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean have cleared the air and decided they agree about the United States' role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Dean, a former Vermont governor, called Pelosi Thursday after hearing that she had signed a letter objecting to his comment that the United States should "not take sides" in the Middle East dispute. Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said the two agreed that the United States should be an honest broker, but must remain committed to Israel's right to exist.
…
Dean sent a response Friday to the signers, thanking them for their letter. He said he is committed to Israel's peace and its special relationship with the United States, but U.S. leaders must earn the Palestinians' trust to negotiate peace.

Dean said he would follow in President Clinton's footsteps and make every effort to bring peace to the region from his first day in office.

"I will not allow a split to emerge in our party on this critical issue, and I am sure you share my commitment to that goal," he wrote.
…
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030912_1901.html
 
This is all for naught b/c Bush is going to crucify him, and i say this as a libertarian/conservative who isn't exactly pleased w/ GW. Dean cannot win running on a platform of weak national security, high taxes, affirmative action, partial abortion, and gay marriage. He's gone to far to the left to ty to come back to the center and ever be elected in these United States. France maybe, Germany perhaps, but no Southerner will vote for someone who panders to them and repudiates his position and insults an entire region of the country. Sorry to all you liberal Dean loving commies, but If you can't win the South, you can't win the Presidency.
 
national security (Bush is the weak candidate. Dean has the strong position.)
…
RAY SUAREZ: And I'll begin tonight's questioning with Governor Dean. The United States is now trying to get help from the United Nations in the form of a resolution to internationalize the mission in Iraq. How much decision-making power can the United States share, while at the same time urging other countries to share the cost and share the risk of being there?

HOWARD DEAN: Well, as you know, I believed from the beginning that we should not go into Iraq without the United Nations as our partner. And in this situation, fortunately the president is finally beginning to see the light. We cannot do this by ourselves, we cannot have an American occupation and reconstruction. We have to have a reconstruction of Iraq with the United Nations, with NATO, and preferably with Muslim troops, particularly Arabic-speaking troops from our allies such as Egypt and Morocco.

We cannot have American troops serving under United Nations command. We have never done that before. But we can have American troops serving under American command, and it's very clear to me that in order to get the United Nations and NATO into Iraq, this president is going to have to go back to the very people he humiliated, our allies, on the way into Iraq, and hope that they will now agree with us that we were wrong to go--excuse me--that they will now agree with us that we need their help there. We were wrong to go in without the United Nations, now we need their help, and that's not a surprise.
…
Governor Dean?
(Speaking in Spanish)
We are spending more than $4 billion a month in Iraq. Do we send more troops?

HOWARD DEAN: Look, I think the most important aspect and the most important quality for any chief executive when they're executing foreign policy is judgment.

I supported the first war in Iraq because one of our allies was invaded, and I thought we had a responsibility to defend them. I supported the war in Afghanistan; 3,000 of our people were murdered. They would have murdered more if they could have. I thought we had a right to defend the United States of America. But in the case of Iraq, the president told us that Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein were about to make a deal or were making a deal. The truth is, there are more likely to be people from Al Qaeda bombing Iraqis and Americans today than there were before Saddam Hussein was kicked out.

Secondly, the president told us that Iraq was buying uranium from Africa. That wasn't true. The vice president told us that the Iraqis were about to get atomic weapons. That turned out not to be true. The secretary of defense told us he knew exactly where the weapons of mass destruction were, right around Tikrit and Baghdad. That turned out to be false as well.

As commander in chief of the United States military, I will never hesitate to send troops anywhere in the world to defend the United States of America. But as commander in chief of the United States military I will never send our sons and daughters and our brothers and sisters to a foreign country in harm's way without telling the truth to the American people about why they're going there. And that judgment needs to be made first, not afterwards.

We need more troops. They're going to be foreign troops, as they should have been in the first place, not American troops. Ours need to come home.
…
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/debate03/part2.html

tax reform (Middle class received no benefit from Bush tax cut)
…
I stood up against all the president's tax cuts. And I find it somewhat surprising that some folks are supporting some of the Bush tax cuts. They are a mistake. The middle class never got a tax cut for us to defend. Their college tuition went up. Their property taxes went up. Fire and police and first response services are going down and local people are having to pay for that. We ought to get rid of the entire Bush tax cut. It is bad for the economy and it has not created one job.
…
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Tax_Reform.htm

civil unions (states' rights)
…
DEAN: We have civil unions, which gives equal rights -- doesn't give marriage, but it gives equal rights in terms of insurance, employment rights, inheritance rights, hospital visitation, to every single Vermonter, no matter who they are.

You know, interestingly enough, Dick Cheney took a position in 2000 in the debates that is not very different than mine. He said, this is not a federal issue. I really am inclined to leave this matter to the states, and I think we ought to let states figure out how to give equal rights to everybody in the way that they do it. So I think this is kind of a political issue at the federal level, but the power to decide these things really belongs to the state level.

KING: All right. On your own state level, if it were a referendum, would you vote for gay marriage?

DEAN: If what were -- we don't have a referendum in my state, and we have civil unions, and we deliberate chose civil unions, because we didn't think marriage was necessary in order to give equal rights to all people.

Marriage is a religious institution, the way I see it. And we're not in the business of telling churches who they can and cannot marry. But in terms of civil rights and equal rights under the law for all Americans, that is the state's business, and that's why we started civil unions.

KING: So you would be opposed to a gay marriage?

DEAN: If other states want to do it, that's their business. We didn't choose to do that in our state.
…
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/04/lkl.00.html
http://www.howarddean.tv/
 
This is all for naught b/c Bush is going to crucify him, and i say this as a libertarian/conservative who isn't exactly pleased w/ GW.

The events which will determine that have not yet been written. It will be the US body count and the success or failure of GWB in finding an honorable or even just salvageable end to the mess he has created.

I would say there is no question that the democratic party in general, and Dean in particular, have the potential of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the best tradition of their party.

I remember the series of elections blown by Jesse Jackson, who would split the democratic vote, sling mud all over the toher demo candidates and then nobody could figure out why the demos kept getting stomped when all their potential support was being split between two candidates.

This one is shaping up the same: Dean apparrently has declined to kiss the rings (or butts) of the reigning lords in the democratic party, not the least of which are the Clintons. If they back that dufus Kerry and rip the demo ticket apart, it will be deja vu all over again with demos losing because they split a 60% majority two ways and ended up short on votes on election day.
 
When he said the U.S. must be "evenhanded" in the Middle East, rivals and critics accused him of selling out the Jewish state -- even though his position is similar to Bush's and his campaign co-chair used to run AIPAC.

Well, this is an election year and he's the front runner. He's going to be attacked if he asks where the men's room is.
 
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