chas08
Member
La Pistoletta, I read the above quote from the link you posted. Theres a perfectly logical explanation for it. It's all B.S.
10 gauge?
- Thread starter La Pistoletta
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Look i am not hear to argue blacks white or anything like that,.
The diference in the 10ga and 12 3.5 is all bar a spit 1MM just 1MM, hell if you heap the fired 10s with the 12 supermags say both are remy greens you will strugle straight off to batch them they are so close in size you often have to read the base stamp.
That is not the point i was trying to make above. In the lead days the 10s could deliver a better pattern at more speed than say a 12 3 inch but come the nickel plated shot and the increase over the stock 3 inch 12 was a lot less than the it used to be. Then came steel and the 3.5 inch and it lost ground again slightly then the modern more progresive propelents and it lost out alltogether.
Any increase in bore size will give an advantage but it is just theoretical not real, and if you stay with factory loads and load within the sami limits you have in the states you are down again with the 10GA.
Now we all know we can load out side the limits it is not rocket science to work out that a SP10 etc is probably stronger than a early 10ga 3.5 inch single, and it can take the hotter loads a little better, but even then you have to look at what the advantages are, and are they indeed worth the extra cost and risk to you and the gun.
Once you are away from the proof standasrds you are on your own literaly, it only takes a change in weather to put that hot scrape the limit reload into the realms of a dangerous risk.
The supermagnum will work well closer to those set limits than a 10GA will, a wise shore shooter will make good use of those extra presure limits and turn it into speed and then tame the charge with a suitable choke combination.
To nail your flag to the mast of a bigger bore rules ok! is not the way i want to go you do as you like.
Next up the 3 inch .410+++28GA comparison The diference there is considerable, and i for one have never made a .410 3 inch with any load charge combo shoot worth the mention. 2 1/2 inch and a max of 1/2 a ounce of hard shot is the only way to go with .410 in my experience the 3 inch is just too under square in the colum to pattern properly with lead any way i cant say i have used hevi shot or steel even in the .410 magnum.
A better comparison i feel would be the 28ga to the 20ga in normal 2 3/4 inch, Now they are close as close as the 10GA and the supermagnum,.
And the little pair just like the biger magnums show about the same if put in the same garden the partridge wint know if it got hit by a 3/4 ounce out of a 20GA or a 28GA I got both 20 and 28 and on game there is nothing in it anywhere worth the mention, if you have you the gun and the cartridge all in fine tune.
The diference in the 10ga and 12 3.5 is all bar a spit 1MM
just 1MM, hell if you heap the fired 10s with the 12 supermags say both are remy greens you will strugle straight off to batch them they are so close in size you often have to read the base stamp.That is not the point i was trying to make above. In the lead days the 10s could deliver a better pattern at more speed than say a 12 3 inch but come the nickel plated shot and the increase over the stock 3 inch 12 was a lot less than the it used to be. Then came steel and the 3.5 inch and it lost ground again slightly then the modern more progresive propelents and it lost out alltogether.
Any increase in bore size will give an advantage but it is just theoretical not real, and if you stay with factory loads and load within the sami limits you have in the states you are down again with the 10GA.
Now we all know we can load out side the limits it is not rocket science to work out that a SP10 etc is probably stronger than a early 10ga 3.5 inch single, and it can take the hotter loads a little better, but even then you have to look at what the advantages are, and are they indeed worth the extra cost and risk to you and the gun.
Once you are away from the proof standasrds you are on your own literaly, it only takes a change in weather to put that hot scrape the limit reload into the realms of a dangerous risk.
The supermagnum will work well closer to those set limits than a 10GA will, a wise shore shooter will make good use of those extra presure limits and turn it into speed and then tame the charge with a suitable choke combination.
To nail your flag to the mast of a bigger bore rules ok! is not the way i want to go you do as you like.
Next up the 3 inch .410+++28GA comparison
The diference there is considerable, and i for one have never made a .410 3 inch with any load charge combo shoot worth the mention. 2 1/2 inch and a max of 1/2 a ounce of hard shot is the only way to go with .410 in my experience the 3 inch is just too under square in the colum to pattern properly with lead any way i cant say i have used hevi shot or steel even in the .410 magnum.A better comparison i feel would be the 28ga to the 20ga in normal 2 3/4 inch, Now they are close as close as the 10GA and the supermagnum,.
And the little pair just like the biger magnums show about the same if put in the same garden the partridge wint know if it got hit by a 3/4 ounce out of a 20GA or a 28GA
I got both 20 and 28 and on game there is nothing in it anywhere worth the mention, if you have you the gun and the cartridge all in fine tune.
chas08
Member
I'm not into the technical drivel. I could care less about velocity after it exceeds 1350 fps. Everyone who has studied balistics knows that the faster you push a round sphere, the faster the vacuum on the backside will slow it down. (Wildfowl Magazine Nov/06 issue) so any advantage the extra muzzle velocity creates is used up rather quickly. I have never seen a choke that would shorten the shot string on a 3.5 12 so that it would compare to the shorter shotstring of a 10.( I've seen this countless times capping cripples on water) Therefore I prefer a 10 for long range birds. The 3.5 12 is a good compromise for those who are not fortunate enough to have the luxury of choice. But on large birds with large shot at 60-80 yds it will never be the equal of a 10. My apologies to the original poster for wandering so far off topic.
metrotps
Member
cota you quote and say a lot of things about the 10 and 12 gauge shot and shotguns, BUT have you ever killed anything with both?? Unless you have shot many birds and bears with both shotguns, you IMHO do not have the credentials to speak about anything but theory. I used to hear a lot of negative comments when I was hunting with my Mag-10 but the doubters got very quiet when the day was done and the birds were counted.
Two Cold Soakers
Member
And besides all the good reasons, I think they sound really cool.
Thuuuwump.
Thuuuwump.
Metrotps
Nothing to say that gives credibility to the facts you try to put up, just give it the two fingers aye!
I have shot a lot of birds on the salt too where you alegedly need a ten.
But you have got me i never killed a bear with steel out of my ten bore .
i am died in the wool coastal shooter, my only interest in ballistics and technical things is getting the geese from the sky to the dinner table as efficiently as possible.
I had every kind of ten by most makers English european and American semi auto pump and doubles shot lots of geese with them, like i said i live for it. 6 months of the year, our season starts september 1st and ends on february 20th none stop on the coast here. been doing it since childhood.
i still got a 10 a spanish made side by side by ugartachea, and badged up as Francotte. It is about all i need in a ten bore, it cost me 75 english pounds last august, sold to me by a guy giving up tens for a winchester X2 3.5 inch(wise man).
I dont have many photos from last season where i used the ten as i said i use a 3.5 inch most of the time.
But i do still shoot Bismuth and some steel through this SXS and it still kills geese.
Here is a few from last year all my dogs and all shot with that ten, no geese were shot in a field all were shot on the tide/salt all were hard won. And not a decoy trailer or a pit in sight all pure coastal.
Post your coastal shots up for me remember its not about numbers its about the lack of a corn field and a pick up truck full of the latest flock striker coys,.
I had the gun a wading stick a dog and a few cartridges in my arse pocket Thats fowling real fowling. And i do most of mine now with a 3.5 inch.12 BORE.
where i often shoot local
what i often shoot local (Daily)
Ready
Retrieved By a type of dog you probably dont even rate as a goose getter
but he gets em another pink foot
and a grey
I dont just shoot anserforms either i get your Giant brants a plenty all are foreshore all are with that ten last season
Incoming
i see em fella
home time same day
All with this ten yet another grey
another grey on a different day same place retrieved by my old lab
And the same day all the pack
i want your pics to show the salt tide ships etc not fields and pickup trucks and decoys.
.
.
i favour this 12 bore it kills just fine
another 12 x3.5 pink
dont tell me! those cheap colonials suck
it does this in the MP153 thats good enough for me
I rate this a little too but not as good as the russian it is not as good at pattern with any choke i tried em all.
.
I can call em in close by mouth no fancy calls, kill em with a 2 3/4 12 let allone a 3.5
he is history
Table bound and the 48AL frany that nailed him 1 oz steel load
I am bored now as i am sure you are but lets get another thing square i am no phoney and i dont like being called one by someone who does not even know me.
Post up some photos then of your long range shore shooting tens and remember no decoys calls or pick up trucks
Just salt sky and geese.:banghead:
Nothing to say that gives credibility to the facts you try to put up, just give it the two fingers aye!
I have shot a lot of birds on the salt too where you alegedly need a ten.
But you have got me i never killed a bear with steel out of my ten bore .
i am died in the wool coastal shooter, my only interest in ballistics and technical things is getting the geese from the sky to the dinner table as efficiently as possible.
I had every kind of ten by most makers English european and American semi auto pump and doubles shot lots of geese with them, like i said i live for it. 6 months of the year, our season starts september 1st and ends on february 20th none stop on the coast here. been doing it since childhood.
i still got a 10 a spanish made side by side by ugartachea, and badged up as Francotte. It is about all i need in a ten bore, it cost me 75 english pounds last august, sold to me by a guy giving up tens for a winchester X2 3.5 inch(wise man).
I dont have many photos from last season where i used the ten as i said i use a 3.5 inch most of the time.
But i do still shoot Bismuth and some steel through this SXS and it still kills geese.
Here is a few from last year all my dogs and all shot with that ten, no geese were shot in a field all were shot on the tide/salt all were hard won. And not a decoy trailer or a pit in sight all pure coastal.
Post your coastal shots up for me remember its not about numbers its about the lack of a corn field and a pick up truck full of the latest flock striker coys,.
I had the gun a wading stick a dog and a few cartridges in my arse pocket Thats fowling real fowling. And i do most of mine now with a 3.5 inch.12 BORE.
where i often shoot local
what i often shoot local (Daily)
Ready
Retrieved By a type of dog you probably dont even rate as a goose getter
but he gets em another pink foot
and a grey
I dont just shoot anserforms either i get your Giant brants a plenty all are foreshore all are with that ten last season
Incoming
i see em fella
home time same day
All with this ten yet another grey
another grey on a different day same place retrieved by my old lab
And the same day all the pack
i want your pics to show the salt tide ships etc not fields and pickup trucks and decoys.
.
.i favour this 12 bore it kills just fine
another 12 x3.5 pink
dont tell me! those cheap colonials suck
it does this in the MP153 thats good enough for me
I rate this a little too but not as good as the russian it is not as good at pattern with any choke i tried em all.
.
I can call em in close by mouth no fancy calls, kill em with a 2 3/4 12 let allone a 3.5
he is history
Table bound and the 48AL frany that nailed him 1 oz steel load
I am bored now as i am sure you are but lets get another thing square i am no phoney and i dont like being called one by someone who does not even know me.
Post up some photos then of your long range shore shooting tens and remember no decoys calls or pick up trucks
Just salt sky and geese.:banghead:
Last edited:
Gordon
Member
Jolly Good Show !!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Great pics. You have three of my favorite breeds of canine there.
Colonial chokes may be inexpensive but they just plain work. I've a few here with lots of mileage on them.
And, IMO, you've established your credentials.....
Colonial chokes may be inexpensive but they just plain work. I've a few here with lots of mileage on them.
And, IMO, you've established your credentials.....
XDKingslayer
member
Yup.
Dad has a 10 gauge NEF single shot cut down to 19" with choke system he uses for turkey.
Not a fun gun to shoot sitting with your back against an oak tree...
Deer Hunter
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,097
GSPs are amazing dogs. I've been raising them for nearly 8 years now.
KBintheSLC
Member
Only if we have nothing but hot air between our legs. For the rest of us that were born with genitalia, the 12 ga ought to suffice.
On second thought, a 10 ga slug might come in handy against enemies with soft body armor. Even if it did not penetrate the kevlar, it would likely cause mortal bruising and severe bone damage.
chas08
Member
cota Nice Photos
We may not see eye to eye on guns , but then few do. Great photos, here are some of mine (hope I did this right) if so they are; a limit of Canadas, Snow and a Blue, three man limit of Ducks (15 birds, I had two hunting buddies with me that day) and my meager but still growing collection. Happy Waterfowling.
We may not see eye to eye on guns , but then few do. Great photos, here are some of mine (hope I did this right) if so they are; a limit of Canadas, Snow and a Blue, three man limit of Ducks (15 birds, I had two hunting buddies with me that day) and my meager but still growing collection. Happy Waterfowling.
Attachments
The pinks are the top goose here, nothing else tries to stay alive that hard. greys can be carefull at times but nothing like pinks.
Obviously all our canadians are introduced more at home on park ponds than the salt, but some live there and provide sport of a kind.
They seem to take ages to wise up though mabe not such a bad thing as it helps keep the numbers down a little.
I want to have a go at a snow or two before i croak and a eagle headed blue as to fall to my gun as well.
Obviously all our canadians are introduced more at home on park ponds than the salt, but some live there and provide sport of a kind.
They seem to take ages to wise up though mabe not such a bad thing as it helps keep the numbers down a little.
I want to have a go at a snow or two before i croak and a eagle headed blue as to fall to my gun as well.
La Pistoletta
Member
Didn't expect this kind of show. Nice pictures.
chas08
Member
I got one on the wall as well as a nice Canada. Dark geese are easier to hunt (Canadas,White fronted) they are more trusting. Light geese (Snows and Blues) are much more difficult. Larger flocks, too many eyes to defeat. If you want a Blue, come to Texas, they winter here. I usually take a few each season.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Nice pics.
Re snows and blues vs dark geese...
I don't see snows as being harder to hunt so much as being pliant to different methods.
Canadas, like I've been hunting since boyhood, with gaps, are capable of being seduced into a few dekes and by a caller of less than champion level talent. Late geese here do like bigger spreads and better calling, but even then they're more forgiving.
Snows,OTOH, seem to demand absolutely perfect conditions to land in, huge spreads and superb calling, preferably from several callers.
I do admit to having much more experience with Canadas, but that's my take.
Re 10 gauge vs 3.5" 12, I use a 3" load of Hevishot 2s and do well over dekes.
So, I have no dog in this fight.
Re snows and blues vs dark geese...
I don't see snows as being harder to hunt so much as being pliant to different methods.
Canadas, like I've been hunting since boyhood, with gaps, are capable of being seduced into a few dekes and by a caller of less than champion level talent. Late geese here do like bigger spreads and better calling, but even then they're more forgiving.
Snows,OTOH, seem to demand absolutely perfect conditions to land in, huge spreads and superb calling, preferably from several callers.
I do admit to having much more experience with Canadas, but that's my take.
Re 10 gauge vs 3.5" 12, I use a 3" load of Hevishot 2s and do well over dekes.
So, I have no dog in this fight.
chas08
Member
Well said, and to me that equates to harder. Down here, when we are blessed with Canadas, small spreads are the norm 12-25 decoys aranged in small family groups of three to five works well. Where as a 1000 rag and block spread for Snows oftentimes isn't enough. Weather is the real equalizer, with strong winds being a hands down winner. Toss in a low cloud ceiling and some sleet and you have the makings of "Snow Goose Soup". A tactic I use a lot when hunting alone, many times, is to simply "Pass Shoot" I know the purists are wringing their hands and cursing. But it works great if you can put yourself on a flightpath, and its a lot less work, which is more important to me now at 52 than it was at 32. We all know deep down when it comes to guns and shot sizes it boils down to what you have confidence in. I favor a 10ga with T-shot, I can cleanly kill birds out to 80 yards and I have an imense amount of confidence in it. I've not really tried the Hevi-shot to any large degree on Geese but I have on duck and its great stuff, pricey but great. Perhaps when my cache of T-shot starts to run low I'll replace it with some Remington HD BB. Then all I'll have to decide is, what do I want for my 4$? a gallon of gas or one shotshell. Hats off to THR.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Sounds familiar, Chas. Taken lots of Canadas over a dozen dekes, but the ONE really good snow goose hunt I did had 3-400 rag and blocks out. I used T shot and did OK on 35 yard shots.
Okiecruffler
Member
I've got 6 canadians on the patio here at work right now and I'd like nothing better than to take them out, with a 12 or 10, don't matter.
I will say this, all this talk of the 10 really has me wanting a nice old SXS.
I will say this, all this talk of the 10 really has me wanting a nice old SXS.
chas08
Member
10 ga sxs
Okie, I hunted deer a few years ago in Illinois as a guest of a fellow who used a 10 ga SxS as his "Deer Gun". I don't recal the make or model but it was somewhat ancient and in excellent shape. I wouldn't mind having one like that to just hang on the wall and look at. I doubt any of those old guns are rated for non-toxic shot.
Okie, I hunted deer a few years ago in Illinois as a guest of a fellow who used a 10 ga SxS as his "Deer Gun". I don't recal the make or model but it was somewhat ancient and in excellent shape. I wouldn't mind having one like that to just hang on the wall and look at. I doubt any of those old guns are rated for non-toxic shot.
dogngun
Member
Most 10's are very heavy, and the shells and guns are VERY expensive and hard to find. Stick with a 12 if you are looking for a HD type gun.
More options, many more for sale, powerfull enough to work and intimidate, but still easy for most people to shoot well.
mark
More options, many more for sale, powerfull enough to work and intimidate, but still easy for most people to shoot well.
mark
Okiecruffler
Member
I'm not rated for non-toxic shot either. I remember going to Kansas on a goose hunt with my grandfather when I was about 12. I got to use the loaner gun, a bolt action 10 with what looked like a 60" barrel. I was laying on the frozen ground, covered in itchy burlap and the only time I was allowed to move was to put that cannon to my shoulder and have it throw me back into the ground. Oh yeah, great memories.
Whatever shotgun you do decide to hunt with I think it's important to stay proficient with it, even during the off season. The best way to do this is participation in friendly games of trap, skeet and a little five stand sporting clays. This type of practice will increase your confidence and decrease your hit/miss ratio during hunting season.
Virginian
Member
If I was 10% as "self assured" as the people who write stuff for Chuck Hawks site, I would be too busy making tons of money in the stock market to fool around on the web.
In the right hands, a 10 gauge can still do exactly what it was designed to do - outperform the 12 gauge. Whether you can take advantage of it, or choose to take on the negatives to have the positives, is something each shooter will have to answer.
Some years ago I was 6'-2" and 225 pounds and in pretty fair shape, I lived in Eastern NC, and I owned a string of 10s and killed a bunch of big birds. I was never happy that I had to swing 2 or more pounds of gun to throw as much steel shot as I used to shoot out of a 12 before lead was banned, but I did it. Recoil was a non-issue - then. Now I am 18 years older, have recently had surgery, and a magnum 12 semi auto is absolutely all I even want to try to handle effectively.
In the right hands, a 10 gauge can still do exactly what it was designed to do - outperform the 12 gauge. Whether you can take advantage of it, or choose to take on the negatives to have the positives, is something each shooter will have to answer.
Some years ago I was 6'-2" and 225 pounds and in pretty fair shape, I lived in Eastern NC, and I owned a string of 10s and killed a bunch of big birds. I was never happy that I had to swing 2 or more pounds of gun to throw as much steel shot as I used to shoot out of a 12 before lead was banned, but I did it. Recoil was a non-issue - then. Now I am 18 years older, have recently had surgery, and a magnum 12 semi auto is absolutely all I even want to try to handle effectively.
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