10 Reasons I can't wait till the XM8 is used.

[1911 guy]

M-16's and bruised shoulders

I was gonna laugh, until I remembered one of my own experiences. California, early 90's. We were doing our monthly fam fire and having some friendly competition doing it. A Senior Chief showed me a weird way of holding the M-16 that shrunk my groups immediately but put only the toe of the stock in my shoulder. Impractical for real use, but looks good on paper. Anyway, because of the toe being the only part of the stock to transmit recoil, the rifle jumped every shot and did leave a quarter sized bruise after a while.

 

[atblis]

If

you have issues with the recoil of the M16, you need to find a new line of work.

 

[cracked butt]

I love my 03. When these silly SHTF threads pop up, if I actually reply, I mention that my 03 would probably be my first "do everything" rifle I'd grab. It has, of course, been reduced to my proper LOP. I've never noticed any pain, and certainly never been bruised while firing it.

Ditch the sporter stock with the recoil pad, drop it into a government issued 'S' stock, and put put 30 rounds down range prone once. The recoil on the auto loading mousegun seems pretty insignificant if you try that.

A Senior Chief showed me a weird way of holding the M-16 that shrunk my groups immediately but put only the toe of the stock in my shoulder.

A lot of high power shooters hold their ARs this way when shooting standing in order to get better and more consistant sight alignment.

 

[JShirley]

Since that gov stock would still be much closer to my LOP than the A2 stock, I'm sure it'd be fine. I've never found the recoil on an AR-15/M-16 significant before, though it's a hell of a lot easier to get the right LOP on an M4 than an 16-A2 or A4.

I have to contort a bit to get my face close enough on those latter fixed-stock models, especially if wearing BA.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

...and why didn't you secure your gear in the first place?

"You have ten seconds to secure your gear. Ten, nine, five, one, TOO SLOW GET DOWN!"

And it only takes one guy in the platoon to miss the time hack and you're all gettin' the butter from the duck. Don't blame AechKay.

So, so true.

 

[Jeff White]

M16 Recoil

I have to admit, that after 4-500 rounds in a day with an M4, doing CQB/reflexive fire training, and keeping the short toe of the buttstock on your collar bone so you can maintain a proper position, my collarbone is a little sore. No bruising or other damage though.

El Tejon...The truth shall set them free

Jeff

 

[JShirley]

Heh. At the ROTC FTX a week ago, I was recognized through the paintball mask...because of how I hold my weapon.

 

[KriegHund]

Ive never gotten a bruise yet from firing my mauser (30+ rounds).

Im just cool like that Its all about where you place the stock.

I noticed that i have to give up a better (not so much it makes a huge difference) sight line-up, head lined up with sites without twisting neck too much etc for better control and vice versa.

Forgot to add- I MISS YOU XM-8!!!!! COME BACK TO ME!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

[itgoesboom]

"You have ten seconds to secure your gear. Ten, nine, five, one, TOO SLOW GET DOWN!"

And it only takes one guy in the platoon to miss the time hack and you're all gettin' the butter from the duck. Don't blame AechKay.

Sorry, meant to put a smilie at the end of the sentance you quoted.

I.G.B.

 

[Raguleader]

5. When I accidently poke my barrel on the ground, my instructs cant yell at me for treating my weapon like crap because I know they saw the same video I did where they dropped it in water, and sand, and all that stuff.

Seems to me they'd just yell at you more for poking the barrel of your NEW gun into the ground.

 

[jerkface11]

As I understood it the XM8 was canceled because there was no bidding process for a new rifle. The bids were put in for the rifle/grenade launcher thing. When they killed that project they decided they'd take the XM8 as a stand alone rifle. But since that wasn't what the bids were for someone complained. And now they have to start the whole process over again. So give it another 40 years and they might issue the things. Or maybe they'll go with the HK416 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as75-e.htm . But since it'll go to the lowest bidder they'll probably go with keltecs

 

[Jeff White]

The XM8 was cancelled because it failed the testing process (bad things happened to it in the desert). The grenade launcher part of the program is still a viable project.

The services are currently conducting a new series of tests designed to identify a new rifle for all services. This is a totally separate program from SOCOM's SCAR-L and SCAR-H programs, which are only producing a new weapon for the special operations community.

My personal gut feeling is that we will spend a year or two testing the offerings from the various manufacturers, then reject them all, as none of them offer a big enough improvement over the weapons we already have. This is exactly what happened the last time we went down this road with the Advanced Combat Rifle Program in the early 1990s.

If we do field a new rifle it will take 10 years of better before they are totally fielded throughout the force. This is just the way we field new equipment. The M1 was adopted as standard in 1937, but it wasn't replaced throughout the Army until the early 1970s (the Army reserve components never did receive the M14 in any quantity and they went straight from the M1 to the M16A1), the sniper rifle version, the M1D soldiered on in both the regular army and the reserve components until at least 1989, perhaps a couple of years longer until the M24 was procured in sufficient quantity to replace it.

Unless a breakthrough in small arms technology on the level of replacing black powder with smokeless powder, you will probably see testing done every 5 or 10 years, but I doubt we'll buy new rifles until something light years ahead of what we have comes along.

Jeff

 

[ArmedBear]

The XM8 was cancelled because it failed the testing process (bad things happened to it in the desert).

Sadly, the irony was lost on the military brass.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Since that gov stock would still be much closer to my LOP than the A2 stock, I'm sure it'd be fine. I've never found the recoil on an AR-15/M-16 significant before, though it's a hell of a lot easier to get the right LOP on an M4 than an 16-A2 or A4.

Wow! I should meet such a person face to face, one who is close to the LOP of a standard issued 03!

I'm a bit oddly proportioned and find the A2 length of an AR-15 more comfortable than the A1 or and M-1 Garand or 1903 (and I have fired plenty of rounds through those 3 types of rifles as well). Many a time I have been bit by the cocking knob of my father's 03 because I forgot what I was shooting until the trigger broke!

As for an M-16 being heavy, I find that hard to believe.

 

[Ed]

Raguleader said "Seems to me they'd just yell at you more for poking the barrel of your NEW gun into the ground. "

You'd be pushing for that.....

 

[No_Brakes23]

you have issues with the recoil of the M16, you need to find a new line of work.

+1, or a better firing position. The M16A2 is like a mouse sneezing in your shoulder. A lighter rifle would make the recoil feel worse. Case in point, the SU-16 kicks harder than the M16.

While I have never had an 03, M39, Argie Mauser, or K31 hurt me, they all have a much more significant kick than the M16A2.

Maybe you need to tweak your shooting position. Is your sling tight enough? Do y'all use your slings when you shoot?

BTW, FWIW the M16A2 was the first rifle I ever fired, so it isn't like I fired those big beasts first and then the M16A2 was easy, it just started out that way. But Marines handle their weapons for about 8-10 weeks before they fire them, and have at least a whole week or so of "snapping in", so most Jarheads go to the range with a good firm shooting position, (Relatively speaking.)

Maybe you could get a "rubber rifle" or your service rifle, and snap in some more with it. Perhaps some shoe-string drills with your roommates?

 

[Raguleader]

Raguleader said "Seems to me they'd just yell at you more for poking the barrel of your NEW gun into the ground. "

You'd be pushing for that.....

 

[carebear]

Who only carries one weapon in training?

0311 baby

My favorite was running to the ranges with a couple AT-4 simulators, my rifle, and a SAW or -60 and a full ammo can. Thank god for slings.

Helmet, flak, deuce gear etc. for warmth on those cool Cali mornings....

 

[Grunt]

M-16 too heavy??? Get stronger.

 

[ID_shooting]

I must say, in basic back in the late 80's, my m-16 a1 got heavy after a while of doing PT drills with it. You can hold out in front of you at arms length for only so long.

He just needs more PT.

"I LIKE IT, I LOVE IT, I WANT MORE OF IT, MAKE IT HURT DRILL SERGEANT, MAKE IT HURT!"

As for poking the muzzle in the dirt...

DROP! you owe us each 20 for even contemplating such a sin.

 

[natedog]

The M-1 Garand weighs 10.5 lbs.

The M-16A2 weighs 7.5 lbs.

The M1A SOCOM weighs 9.2 lbs.

That's a pretty signifigant difference if you ask me.

 

[JShirley]

Okay...now add a PEQ laser, an M68 CCO red dot, a loaded 30-round mag, a foregrip, and a high-intensity white light if you like- and maybe an M203- and see what your weight looks like.

Also, I used the A4 in ITB. I don't know if anyone else has actually been issued one, but they are heavy (for a rifle- still light in comparison to my M224 weapons system).

John

 

[Langenator]

Jeff, don't forget the SPIW project(s) in the 60s (did it make it into the 70s?) that never ended up producing anything, even though they played around with all sorts of wierd things.

Or the HK G11, dead due to post-Cold War budget cuts. Would be interesting to see how that 4.7mm would perform vs the much maligned 5.56 in 'known down' power.