100% tung oil or dark raw tung oil?

[Frandy]

I'm working with an assumption that I can apply coats of either of these tung oils on top of my Garand stock that already has a couple of BLO coats that I applied last week. Both are actually pure tung oil, though the raw dark type has a non-toxic naturally occurring resinous hydrocarbon added for color. The resin is non-carcinogenic and does not contain any PCB's. See the Web site link I provided for full info on these products.

Here are my questions:

1. Does anyone have experience applying 100% tung oil over dried BLO?

• Has anyone ever used this dark raw tung oil? It sure looks promising!

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

And please, no need to recommend Formby's or MinWax, or other approaches. Thank ya!

Frandy

 

[DMK]

Yes to both questions as a matter of fact. I just applied some of their Dark Tung on my M1903 and on a K98 stock. The dark tung isn't that dark. It just gives it a weathered, antique look. It's a nice look for a milsurp I think. It makes it look a little used. If you are looking to darken the color, use a water based stain.

The tung over the linseed oil went on nicely. I saturated the stock with mineral spirits to get some of cosmoline out, but it still had a lot of linseed in it. I put two coats on mized with three parts mineral spirits, then two pure tung. I let it dry 24 hours between. Probably should have let it dry longer, but was impatient.

 

[Frandy]

Thanks DMK...

So, given that I have no cosmoline on this new CMP stock, only BLO coats, I can let the current BLO coat that I applied yesterday dry, and then add a coat or 2 of the dark tung cut with mineral spirits and then another coat or 2 full strength. Right?

 

[roo_ster]

Frandy:

That link was quite enlightening. Pure tung oil will be what I use on my next project, just to see how it works.

 

[fredcwdoc]

I have used both their products and both have worked well.

I have read posts where you are not suppose to use tung over BLO or BLO over tung. Don't remember which. Not sure if anyone else has read this or not.

Most the time with a CMP stock I will hit the wood with 0000 steelwool and denatured alcohol just to get everything off and start over again.

 

[Frandy]

Hey fred...

Perhaps this is what you were thinking of:

"A second consideration is the order of potential use. Wood treated with linseed oil, tung oil, boiled linseed oil, or boiled tung oil can be coated with Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil with some success. Once the wood is finished with Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Tru-Oil, then linseed oil, tung oil, BLO or BTO will not penetrate the varnish layer and will not likely dry leaving only a sticky mess on the sealed surface of the wood.

Phrased another way, once Minwax Tung Oil Finish or Tru-Oil is used, follow up applictions to repair scatches or damage to the stock or to simply freshen it should to be done with the same product. Linseed oil, tung oil, BLO, or BTO cannot successfully be applied over those more modern finishes because the varnish component seals out the older natural finishes and they will not dry."

From:
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/wood_cleaning_article.htm

 

[DMK]

Thanks DMK...

So, given that I have no cosmoline on this new CMP stock, only BLO coats, I can let the current BLO coat that I applied yesterday dry, and then add a coat or 2 of the dark tung cut with mineral spirits and then another coat or 2 full strength. Right?

Well, the only reason I cut it with mineral spirits is to thin it so the first and second coats really soak in as deep as possible. If you already have a couple coats of BLO, I wouldn't thin the tung oil. Just put it on straight as top coats. I use scotchbrite pads to apply it and rub it in with vigorous motion to warm the wood.

Definately let the BLO cure before applying the tung. BLO does cure faster than tung oil though, so maybe just let it dry a couple days. In a warm, dry place with sunlight if possible.

 

[DMK]

I have used both their products and both have worked well.

I have read posts where you are not suppose to use tung over BLO or BLO over tung.

Yes, most people think of Tung Oil Finish when someone says Tung Oil. They are not the same. Tung Oil is pure oil. Tung oil finish is mostly varnish and surprisingly may actually contain no tung oil at all depending on the brand.

Pure tung oil polymerizes into a rubbery waxy substance almost feeling like dried Elmer's glue from the stuff that's run down the side of the bottle and dried. It's fairly soft and pliable, but very water resistant (much more so than BLO). Tung Oil Finish dries to a hard, almost brittle finish. It dries faster and is shinier that pure tung oil.

 

[Third_Rail]

DMK, would you say that pure tung is better or worse than using something like Birchwood Casey stock oil?

 

[DMK]

DMK, would you say that pure tung is better or worse than using something like Birchwood Casey stock oil?

Sorry Third Rail, I can't say as I've never used the Birchwood Casey Tru-oil however, according to their website it contains linseed oil and some other stuff. It says it drys fast and hard, so it may contain varnishes or it may be a variation of BLO, I just don't know.

Most of these finishes are good stuff, but they all have their strengthys and weaknesses. It depends on what you are looking for in a finish.

Most of my guns are milsurps or plinkers. I prefer pure Tung Oil because it gives a satin finish and if you get a chip or nick in the wood later, or you just want to reapply more oil in spots or over the whole stock, you can just rub it in. Tung is also one of the most water repellent finishes (aside from the plastics like polyeurothane). It's just oil with nothing else. It's non-toxic so you can rub it in with your bare hands (you can even use it on wooden kitchen utensils or cutting boards). Drawbacks to pure tung: It takes longer to cure (24 hours to two days to reapply, about a week to cure fully), it's a soft finish, and it doesn't get real shiny. These drawbacks are "fixed" with Tung Oil Finishes, but you get a more brittle finish, give up the non-toxicity, the ability to easily repair the finish and in some cases, the water repellent.

Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is similar to Tung Oil Finishes except that it's treated Linseed oil. It drys quicker than straight linseed oil or pure tung and is easier to apply and reapply than Tung Oil Finishes.

 

[DMK]

Here's a real good description of the various oils and finishes from the CMP website:
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/wood_cleaning_article.htm

4. Nature of Various Wood Finishes Commonly Used

Linseed Oil is a natural product best described as a yellowish oil extracted from the seeds of flax grown to make linen. Linseed oil does not dry well and does little to exclude moisture from wood.

Tung Oil is also a natural product best described as a yellow or brownish oil extracted from the seeds of the tung tree. It is also called Chinawood oil. Tung oil does not dry well either and is only slightly better at moisture exclusion than linseed oil.

Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is a mixture of linseed oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil in that it will more completely dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. BLO does not completely cure or dry and multiple coats dry even less well.

Boiled Tung Oil (BTO) is a mixture of tung oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil, pure tung oil, and boiled linseed oil in that it will more likely cure or dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. The BTO finish is slightly harder and more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. None of these four products is really good at excluding moisture from wood.

Minwax Tung Oil Finish is an oil and varnish blend that is much more waterproof and will dry due to added driers. It can be built up into a gloss, but that is not usually done. It is best used as an in the wood finish rather than a built up on the wood finish. Minwax Tung Oil Finish resists scratches and is more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. The best qualities of Minwax Tung Oil Finish allow it to be wiped on and wiped off properly prepared wood leaving an in the wood finish of a look similar to BLO, but far more stable and protective. A number of coats to clean and repair scratches can be applied without building up on the surface if rubbed in carefully and then rubbed dry. Other finish products with similar sounding names may have far more varnish and behave differently in use. Some are varnishes thinned out enough with carriers and solvents so that they will penetrate into wood and not quickly build a hard film.

Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil is a polymerized natural oil altered by chemicals and heat to produce a varnish like finish but with a few properties of oils. Tru-Oil builds a hard film on the surface of wood unless it is carefully and sparingly rubbed into the wood with none left on the surface. Tru-Oil quickly builds a gloss. Because of its hard film, Tru-Oil resists water penetration well. It also resists gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms better than any of the above products. Its chief virtues are also its chief problems. Repeated coats build up into a gloss which is often not desired.

Marine Spar Varnishes are the most waterproof and stable of the common wood finishes. They adhere well to the surface of wood and resist moisture and chemicals. As a varnish, it tends to build up a gloss and build up surface layers very quickly. Other than for a maximum effort to waterproof a stock, it has limited utility for rifle stock use.

 

[alamo]

The cabinet maker that moderates the C&R stock cleaning forum thinks very highly of Behr's Tung Oil finish. As the name implies, it is not pure tung oil, about 1/3 but that is not a bad thing.

http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm34.showMessage?topicID=1852.topic

I just ordered a quart for my 1903A3 stock. It was $10 & change including Fedex ground shipping.

The number is 800-854-0133, option 3 for the ordering department.

 

[Third_Rail]

DMK, that's the info I was looking for. I have the Birchwood Casey oil, boiled linseed oil, and tung oil on hand. I guess I'll just see what I like most!


How many coats is "too many"? I figure if I do BLO a few times (waiting between coats) then finish with the Birchwood Casey, I'd get a nice finish to the wood.

 

[Sodbuster]

And what beats them all is Waterlox.

 

[Brian Williams]

Ditto on the Waterlox, I use it for handrubbed furniture and it does not split take in moisture or anything. Evenings spent with waterlox and a gunstock will make your hands and the stock silky smooth. The more you rub it and harder you rub it the better it is. It will form a top coat like a varnish but easily repairable like oil. If you scratch the finish just appy more with a 400 grit abrasive paper and finish with hand rubing. If you scratch a varnish stock it is a bear to spot refinish, you almost have to redo the whole thing.

 

[Frandy]

Glad I started the thread...lots of good info. Thanks to everyone who joined in.

Well, the BLO coat I put on this past Sunday is lookin' real good and will definitely be dry and ready for a coat of the 100% Tung oil (dark version) I ordered from http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html .

This weekend I'll apply the first coat cut with mineral spirits and then see how she looks. I might (probably) then add another coat, full strength.

I figure all this will take til Christmas. Nice present to myself.

 

[dfaugh]

Not sure

about applying Tung Oil over BLO as I've never done it...

But I routinely use Tung to refinish antiques...And it's definitely my preferred finish...On bare wood, at least, though, I often put up to 6 or 7 coats on....This will fill most minor imperfections, and gives a very durable finish, and doesn't look like a "new" finish...I usually apply with a shop cloth, and use soem 0000 steel wool on the first couple coats, as it tends to raise the grain...I let it dry overnight between coats, and this has always been adequate.

 

[Khornet]

On my daughter's old Stevens Favorite

I did BLO on the buttstock and pure tung on the forend. Butt has a slightly glossy finish, forend has a matte finish, bot applied the same way. Tung was noticeably slower to dry and has remained more 'plastic' or flexible even 15 years later.Both have held up beautifully, but this little rifle doesn't spend a lot of time out in the elements.

I wouldn't buy tung in any big quantity unless you do several rifles a year, as it tends to turn to a gel in the can once about half is used and the rest sits for a few years.

Not familiar with Waterlox but will learn. Pilkington's finishes, available from Brownells, also provide an excellent finish which has held up well on my deer rifle since '88. They are linseed-based English finishes.

Dang. Makes me want to find a stock to work again.

 

[Frandy]

Yeah, I bought 16 oz of the Tung oil... I've got my eyes on an old Marlin .22 stock and of course, there's plenty of wood surfaces around the house that could use a little work. Heck, I'll be out of the stuff before ya' know it!

 

[DMK]

I wouldn't buy tung in any big quantity unless you do several rifles a year, as it tends to turn to a gel in the can once about half is used and the rest sits for a few years.

You can avoid that by removing all the air from the container. Keep it in as small a container as possible (like a small soda bottle or something), then add clean stones or marbles to take up space until the container is filled to the top, leaving no airspace.

 

[Werewolf]

FWIW I'm a big fan of BC Tru-oil. I've used it on a Stoeger Coach gun Stock with excellent results. Cleaned up a Win 94 stock and a Garand Stock.

Steel Wool, elbow grease and Tru-Oil work wonders. A day or two between applications and 3 to 5 apps will make any stock look good.

You can run the gamut between a plain matte finish (0000 Steel Wool used to lightly buff the final dried app) or a very fine glossy finish.

Tru-Oil truly worked wonders on the Stoeger. The shotgun came with the typically ugly and dark finish on what ever wood the brazilians use. A good sanding with 00 steel wool and repeated apps/light buff with 0000 steel wool over a period of a week really brought out the grain and color of the wood. It was my first stock project and made me a believer.

I may just have to look into Tung Oil finishes since I'm a fan of shinier stocks.

 

[30Cal]

DMK, that's the info I was looking for. I have the Birchwood Casey oil, boiled linseed oil, and tung oil on hand. I guess I'll just see what I like most!


How many coats is "too many"? I figure if I do BLO a few times (waiting between coats) then finish with the Birchwood Casey, I'd get a nice finish to the wood.

I haven't had any problems putting Tung Oil over BLO. One thing to remember is that linseed oil will redden as it oxidizes over a long period of time--that's why a lot of the old springfields have that ox-blood color to them. If you put Tung Oil over the top, you'll effectively prevent or prolong that shift in color.

On my M1's, I put 2-4 coats of tung oil on them and they still have a GI appearance to them. The more coats you put on, the smoother the stock will get and pretty soon it starts to look more like a parade gun than a rack gun. Depends on the look you want to get.

FYI, cosmoline will sweat through 6 coats of tung oil.

Ty

 

[Frandy]

then add clean stones or marbles to take up space

Yes, that's exactly what I do with quite a few marbles that I have. Always does the trick.

If you put Tung Oil over the top, you'll effectively prevent or prolong that shift in color.

Yup, that's one reason I iwant to add the Tung oil and also why I'm buying their "dark" product.