I know in my last thread I was talking a 20ga well I have more money then I plan to have and I've been wanting a new turkey and I've looked at a browning bps 10ga and I looked at a couple 12ga mostly a buddy Charles daly their the same price the Charles daly is a semi auto and a 3 1/2 I know the gun is soild but I have been wanting a 10ga for years and I can't make my mind up I like the 10 for turkey or if I ever duck or goose hunt but I know with a semi12 I can go for so much more. And find shell I heck of a lot easier then the 10 but I don't know just looking for advice before I buy one thanks
10ga vs 3.5 12ga
- Thread starter jrbaker90
- Start date
- Status
Virginian
Member
I had three 10 gauge BPSs, and they worked very well. Even with steel they would really reach out there. Never missed a beat. I don't think you need a 10 or a 3-1/2 12 for turkeys, but if you want the ultimate nothing beats the 10 gauge with steel, lead, or anything else.
Thanks to tungsten I no longer shoot steel.
Thanks to tungsten I no longer shoot steel.
The 3 1/2" shells, (12 or 10) are only useful in very limited applications. Since the requirement of non-toxic shot for waterfowl folks have few options. Steel is by far the cheapest option, but steel shot is much lighter than lead or the other options. You need to move up at least 2 shot sizes to get decent terminal performance on game. This means very few pellets in standard 2 3/4" shells. There is no reason to use shells longer than 2 3/4" for anything but waterfowl and when using steel shot. The 3 1/2" turkey loads from a 12 or 10 will give elephant gun recoil. There is no way you could pay me enough to shoot a turkey with one of those. Steel shot recoil is stout, but much more manageable.
Even for most duck hunting 3" steel shot is plenty, and 2 3/4" shells work most of the time. For someone who hunts geese at long range the 3 1/2" shells start making sense. With the really large pellets needed for geese the longer shells in 10 or 12 guage help, but only if using steel shot. You can get the same or better performance from shorter shells with bismuth or tungsten shot. But at higher ammo costs.
I've never used a 10, but have had a couple of 3 1/2" 12's. I'm not saying I would not buy one, but I'd probably never shoot the longest shells in one. Other factors to consider. Even the expensive autoloaders that are 3 1/2" capable are less reliable with 2 3/4" shells. It makes no sense to me to buy a gun capable of shooting shells I'll rarely if ever use and sacrifice reliability with the shells I'll use the most.
I'd buy a quality 3" 12. If you find the need for more performance pay for the more expensive shells like Virginian suggested. The 3 1/2" guns serve a very specific need, but are not what I'd want as an all around gun.
Even for most duck hunting 3" steel shot is plenty, and 2 3/4" shells work most of the time. For someone who hunts geese at long range the 3 1/2" shells start making sense. With the really large pellets needed for geese the longer shells in 10 or 12 guage help, but only if using steel shot. You can get the same or better performance from shorter shells with bismuth or tungsten shot. But at higher ammo costs.
I've never used a 10, but have had a couple of 3 1/2" 12's. I'm not saying I would not buy one, but I'd probably never shoot the longest shells in one. Other factors to consider. Even the expensive autoloaders that are 3 1/2" capable are less reliable with 2 3/4" shells. It makes no sense to me to buy a gun capable of shooting shells I'll rarely if ever use and sacrifice reliability with the shells I'll use the most.
I'd buy a quality 3" 12. If you find the need for more performance pay for the more expensive shells like Virginian suggested. The 3 1/2" guns serve a very specific need, but are not what I'd want as an all around gun.
The 3.5" 12 or 10ga is really only an advantage with big steel shot for geese IMO. I own a BPS 10ga, and have owned 3.5" 12's. To me, the 10 patterns better and kicks less than most of the 3.5" 12's. Shells are more expensive, harder to find, and with fewer options than the 12. With the right ammo/choke combination the 3" 12ga will do 99% of what the larger shells will in a lighter, softer kicking gun.
MCgunner
Member
^^That^^
My ten works FANTASTIC. I puts steel T shot into a 30" pattern circle at over 90 percent. I now have a 3.5" 12, and it's not a back bored gun, it's a Mossberg 535 I picked up at a pawn shop lately. I have yet to purchase a box of steel 3.5" Ts to pattern, need to get off my duff and find some.
Regards to ammo, this is snow goose country. I live about 20 miles west of Eagle Lake, Texas and work in El Campo. The Walmart in El Campo doesn't have a lot of ammo variety, but they have 3 shelves FULL of 10 gauge steel T.
Oddly, they don't have any 12 3.5". I have a MEC press set up for 10 gauge and can load it for about half the Walmart price. I stopped bothering with 12 gauge reloading a long time ago, but a couple of years ago, 12 gauge 3.5" steel Ts were running 21 bucks and change while 10 was 25 dollars, that's a 25 round box. 10 is up to 30 dollars now at the El Campo Walmart.BUT, I'm a goose hunter. However, my 10 is a H&R turkey gun. If I had turkey here (can't figure out why I don't), it'd be my gun with sixes. I have some sixes loaded up for it and they pattern well, too, out of the turkey choke my gun came with. I had to buy a modified choke for it for the steel. I am told this gun will work with Browning chokes, but I haven't tried it. Both my chokes are H&R sourced. This gun cost me a bit over 200 new. I just couldn't bring myself to fork over 700 for a Browning no more often than I book a goose hunt, but I'm kinda wanting one now that I know how well the 10 patterns. I picked up the 535 for 170 dollars, just couldn't find a reason to leave it in that pawn shop at that price. I'm hoping for 80 plus patterns, might use it in lieu of the 10, don't know. If it patterns down in the 70s, I can more justify looking for a BPS 10. I really like those Brownings, high quality firearm with great lefty ergos.
Oh, and about recoil, my ten is 9 lbs. I've fired 21 rounds in a morning no problem. The 12 is a couple lbs lighter. It might hurt.
It ain't bad with 3". I shimmed it for perfect fit and have a Limb Saver on it.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Shotgun patterns on paper are basically two dimensional.
Shotgun patterns in flight are THREE dimensional.
The best explanation I have seen of the importance of that fact was in Bob Brister's book (Shotgunning, The Art And Science, IIRC). Used copies sell for a few bucks and are well worth the small investment of money and time.
The critical aspect is the length of the shot string in flight. A 10 will have more pellets in less space as a rule than a 3.5" 12, since the 10 will usually have a shorter shot string.
Shotgun patterns in flight are THREE dimensional.
The best explanation I have seen of the importance of that fact was in Bob Brister's book (Shotgunning, The Art And Science, IIRC). Used copies sell for a few bucks and are well worth the small investment of money and time.
The critical aspect is the length of the shot string in flight. A 10 will have more pellets in less space as a rule than a 3.5" 12, since the 10 will usually have a shorter shot string.
MCgunner
Member
Same thing comparing 3" 20 to a 2 3/4" 12. Same payload, but the way it's delivered is the problem.
Captcurt
Member
Fred is right on, but the point is moot on a stationary target. The shot string only has a negative effect on a moving target. A long shot string would still leave a pattern of, say, 30" at 40 yard on a stationary target. That same who string might have a pattern of 30"X20' depending upon the speed of a moving barrel tracking a fast flying bird.
Last edited:
MCgunner
Member
I personally doubt 3.5' 12 can pattern as well as a 10, but you never know until you try.
The idea of the back bored gun is that the bore diameter approximates the 10, so the pattern fills out and shortens up. I think it sounds better on paper, but I have not tried such a gun.
The idea of the back bored gun is that the bore diameter approximates the 10, so the pattern fills out and shortens up. I think it sounds better on paper, but I have not tried such a gun.
tactikel
Member
I bought a Mossberg 835 Ulti- mag 3.5" pump solely to shoot steel shot at geese. It came with a turkey barrel, and I have found that with a PureGold choke and Hevishot magblends it will throw 100 pellets into a 10" paper plate well past 50 yards. Recoil is brutal, but I never feel it in the field.
BTW the 835 is over bored and has a 10ga diameter barrel, patterns are excellent.
BTW the 835 is over bored and has a 10ga diameter barrel, patterns are excellent.
Liberty1776
Member
1. I've never been kicked by a shotgun as bad as my 835 with 3 1/2" loads.
2. it patterned great with the overbored bbl
3. I find a 10 ga much more pleasant to shoot
4. Longest swat down I've ever seen on a goose was with a BPS 10
2. it patterned great with the overbored bbl
3. I find a 10 ga much more pleasant to shoot
4. Longest swat down I've ever seen on a goose was with a BPS 10
My uncle has a 835 the used for turkey and before that he had a h&r single shot 10ga he sold that went to the 835 and now
gone down to a 20ga. I have talk my self out of a 10ga I can't find ammo and a 12ga I can hunt more and find ammo thanks
gone down to a 20ga. I have talk my self out of a 10ga I can't find ammo and a 12ga I can hunt more and find ammo thanks
Last edited:
45crittergitter
Member
The 3.5" 12 ga. load is basically equivalent to the 3.5" 10 ga., except the 10 uses a larger bore (presumably better patterns), and the 12 uses higher pressure.
The big difference is typically the size and weight of the guns, cost and availability of ammo, and versatility. The 12 wins on all counts. My 3.5" 12 ga. auto weighs 7# and works with 1-1/8 oz. loads.
I think the main advantage of the 10 would be for specific applications (pass shooting geese for example) or for very large shooters who shoot better with heavy guns.
The big difference is typically the size and weight of the guns, cost and availability of ammo, and versatility. The 12 wins on all counts. My 3.5" 12 ga. auto weighs 7# and works with 1-1/8 oz. loads.
I think the main advantage of the 10 would be for specific applications (pass shooting geese for example) or for very large shooters who shoot better with heavy guns.
The best affordable big boomer is probably BPS 12ga 3.5". If you want 10 ga I would go with 12lb Gargantua in form of Remington SP-10. That is Ithaca Mag 10 with stainless components in gas system plus choke tube in the barrel.
eastbank
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,021
i picked up this rem 870 super mag 3.5 inch express new in the box at a flea market for 200.00 from a man who won it at a raffle and didn,t hunt. i had a extra camoed 3.5" rc barrel, so i put it on and added a 2.5 leupold scope (for turkey,s) and it is a amazing shotgun as it shoots 45yd sure kill patterens with 2oz #5-6 shot. it does kick with the 3.5" shells(i sighted it with a lead sled) and i don,t think i,ll shoot more than 2-3 shells at turkey,s anyway. it weights 8lbs-4 oz,s and will get a full camo treatment before season. eastbank.
Attachments
chas08
Member
I own both. I can't really add much to what has already been said. I prefer the 10 for Geese and Cranes. I prefer the 12 for Duck and Turkey. I rarely shoot a 3 1/2 inch shell in the 12. A 2 3/4 in. 1 1/4 oz #6 Hevi-Shot Duck load Turned a fall season Gobblers head and neck into a bloody mess for me this past season, with a poly-choked barrel set on full at 41 yards. (I ranged him with my rangefinder before the shot) Dead is dead. Buy what you really yearn to own and use it!
- Status