10mm 1911 platform

[jfh]

Sorry, Doc2005--I have no ox to gore. I've never talked to Dennis, and I have read most or all of the "Kimber QC" threads here.

I've owned 1911s for about twenty years. One is an SA 1911 I built up into a decent IPSC-type / club competition gun, and I learned about 1911s on that one. The other is a SA Omega (6", with 10mm barrels) that SA upgraded with Ed Brown gear. Both have 20-30K rounds through them, mostly handloads.

A Glock 20 I blew up at about round 284, shooting a barely-major reload I had developed for the Omega. The S&W 1006 is totally reliable and problem-free, and I will probably sell it; I no longer like S&W semiauto ergonomics for recreational shooting. I also just put the 10mm top end on my EAA Witness large frame, and it has been totally trouble free--including the three extra magazines--during 400 rounds of burnishing. It isn't a match barrel, however, and the trigger still bugs me.

However, based on my experiences, I would unhesitatingly recommend the EAA package--but I know they have some QC issues, too, from reading the threads here. YEMV.

The magazine issues I allude to with the Kimber are simply because they are CMC mags I bought about fifteen years ago for use in my Omega, and one of them needs cleaning and a new spring. That is not worthy of a Mythbusters project.

This Kimber was an impulse buy, period. I had read the Kimber threads on THR about the QC issues. I briefly inspected the gun and said, "Why not?" as I plunked down the plastic. (Had they had a DW Razorback in stock and it looked and felt as good, I probably would have bought that, Peter.)

I know you are well-qualified to speak on this subject, Doc2005, but you gotta keep your perspective. IMO.

Jim H.

 

[nickE10mm]

FWIW, I only paid 840 for my new CZ/DW Razorback.

 

[Socrates]

Doc:
Your experience with Kimber sounds like mine with Apple computers.;=)

S

 

[KansasCityMo]

Wow.

Thanks for all the info guys. I have a couple questions though.

What are "mim" parts and why do they need to be replaced with Ed Brown parts?

And in addition when I have enough liquid assets to buy one of these guns I sort of want to use it right away, does the dan wesson require the same kind of parts switching? And does colt make any NEW 10mm??

Thanks for the answers, the more i learn the more questions i have.

 

[Socrates]

Metal Injection Molding

It's a cheaper way of casting. When the parts break, the stuff looks like a brittle powder on the inside, not forged steel. The parts don't bend, they break.

http://www.pcc-aft.com/?gclid=CJbr5M_HpY4CFRBYYQodL295pg

 

[KansasCityMo]

It's just too bad about Kimber.

I really like the way they look, especially the Eclipse, but I followed the link, thanks Doc2005, and I don't want to deal with that.

Too bad though.

 

[KansasCityMo]

Do a lot of gun makers use MIM?

I followed the link and it sounds like powder mixed with plastic. How is this okay when you are dealing with the kind of pressure inside a firearm?

 

[wally]

Do a lot of gun makers use MIM?

Virtually all. Its fine when parts are designed for the process, problem is the 1911 design predates cast/MIM precision parts. They've pretty much got the bugs out of casting with proper alloy selection, modified heat treatments and minor changes in parts cross-section. If this is possible with MIM and the 1911 remains to be seen.

--wally.

 

[nickE10mm]

Check out this thread over at 1911forum. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=177478&highlight=mim Great info about forged steel, castings and the MIM process.

IMHO, they all have their place in pistols, the M1911 design included.

 

[Socrates]

Detonics, I guess Wilson now, Sig 1911's, were supposed to be all forged, but now the president of Kimber moved to Sig, so, he'll probably screw up their 1911's too.

For the record:
Kimber Ultra Carry II: Safety snapped right off. Cheap part, not thick enough, poorly designed. IIRC, I think Jack Huntington had to custom fit one from his parts box.

One of the problems with the little guns is no one makes forged parts for them, and, they really need them, since they are so compact, and take so much force, in shorter areas. Also, when you shrink the design, you take the room out that allows a margin of error.

Kimber Custom II, broken MIM slide stop. Gun went into the shop with every forged part that Brown recommended.

Some of the stuff is poorly designed, and cast. Seems that forged bends a little, and can rebound MIM just breaks. So, MIM parts should really be thicker then the forged parts in stressed areas.

Some one might check, but I'd swear the internal parts on my S&W 360PD are MIM. Action feels like two 80 grit pieces of sandpaper rubbing, even after polishing, oiling, and over 5000 dry fires.

Also, a S&W Scandium 1911 got the thumbs down, when he had to do a trigger job on it, for that same reason: too much MIM in the internals, in places that need the smoothing that forged will take.

S esq.

 

[glockadict]

I would go 1 of three ways, 1. buy a Baer custom like mentioned ealier, 2. get a STI Trojan in 40 and have the barrel reamed, or 3. get an old Para 16-40 (non PXT) and send in to Hunter Customs to have it converted to 10mm. I might just do all three. I have plenty of 1911's all 40 and 45.

 

[Socrates]

Funny part used to be we looked at Norinco stuff, since it was forged, and, sometimes better made, then SA M1A castings. Friend has a 1911, and, with a used barrel, shoots like crazy, and, he's got about 400 in it.

S esq.

 

[Myself]

Wilson is currently making a 10mm 1911 if you are looking for a "high end" gun. They are steep but from what I have read, nice.