10mm Auto (1911 vs SW 610)

[g_one]

Wasn't sure to put this here or in the revolver section, but since 10mm is primarily a semi-auto round here we are.

Money has been tight this year, but ever since I moved to Wisconsin (about a year and a half ago) I have had my eyes set on a 1911 in 10mm. Probably going to go with Fusion and assemble it myself, but that's a different story. I recently discovered something that most of you are probably already familiar with, which is the existence of the S&W 610, 10mm double action revolver. I own a revolver, so I'm familiar with them and I do enjoy shooting them, and I actually prefer the way they feel in my hand over most semi-autos, so I started to lean towards the 610 over a 1911. The only thing stopping me is a rather big issue though - I do not like the double-action trigger of a revolver. I know they can be cocked for SA, but in self-defense situations where follow-up shots may be necessary, I'm not going to be taking the time to set the action and any shots after the first will of course be DA. And, since this particular gun is going to be primarily for self-defense (when hiking/camping vs 4-legged predators and to keep as a truck gun vs 2-legged predators), I'm leaning back towards the 1911.

Any thoughts?

 

[sargents1]

Wasn't sure to put this here or in the revolver section, but since 10mm is primarily a semi-auto round here we are.

Money has been tight this year, but ever since I moved to Wisconsin (about a year and a half ago) I have had my eyes set on a 1911 in 10mm. Probably going to go with Fusion and assemble it myself, but that's a different story. I recently discovered something that most of you are probably already familiar with, which is the existence of the S&W 610, 10mm double action revolver. I own a revolver, so I'm familiar with them and I do enjoy shooting them, and I actually prefer the way they feel in my hand over most semi-autos, so I started to lean towards the 610 over a 1911. The only thing stopping me is a rather big issue though - I do not like the double-action trigger of a revolver. I know they can be cocked for SA, but in self-defense situations where follow-up shots may be necessary, I'm not going to be taking the time to set the action and any shots after the first will of course be DA. And, since this particular gun is going to be primarily for self-defense (when hiking/camping vs 4-legged predators and to keep as a truck gun vs 2-legged predators), I'm leaning back towards the 1911.

Any thoughts?

I think there are better cartridges out there for a revolver (.357 and .44 mag).

For my money, a 1911 is not ideal for 10mm. Most 1911's use a throated barrel setup which leaves a lot of the case head un-supported. That is fine when using a low pressure cartridge like the .45 Auto, but it is scary with a high-pressure cartridge like the 10mm.

I suppose if you were assembling the gun yourself you could probably find a ramped-barrel to use, that would help with the case head support.

You mentioned that money is somewhat tight. Well, a Glock 20 has a ramped barrel and costs a lot less. It still has a small amount of unsupported chamber, but it is drastically less that what you see on a throated barrel 1911. The new ones are pretty good in terms of chamber support, the older ones, not so much. I think you could buy a used (newer Gen3 or 4) G20, then buy an aftermarket barrel with even better chamber support and still have less in it than a custom 1911.

Unfortunately, when you are talking 10mm, your options are somewhat limited.

You could look into an EAA / Tanfoglio Witness in 10mm. They are very reasonable in terms of price, but I have heard (second hand) of issues with the US Importer (EAA). Since I dont have any personal experience with those guns, I cant give you a real opinion, but I am sure there are some folks out there that could chime in.

I am not trying to talk you out of the S&W610, I am sure it is just as good as any other S&W revolver (which is very good in my experience). If you really want a 10mm, I think the Glock is the way to go. If you want a revolver, you can get more (and more varied) performance with better ammo availability in a .44 mag.


Thats my 2 cents.

 

[intercooler]

I think you need to shoot them both. You didn't even list a barrel length and you may also want to look at a single action revolver. A 610 is a rather large frame piece where many say the frame is really overkill.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well you could buy the 610 and then take it to a gunsmith for a trigger job, and have the pull lightened up. Honestly though, S&W triggers are usually pretty darn nice. If you don't care for the feel out of the box, you may never care for it.

A 1911 trigger will always be a shorter pull, maybe not lighter if you have the 610 worked on, but shorter for sure. Go with what you will be most effective with.

You know, Wisconsin is mostly black bear land. There are a few moose around, but they aren't a problem. Wolves are about here and there. Are you sure you need 10mm power? I've never shot a semiauto that is higher pressure than a .40 S&W. I sold that gun because I didn't care for the snap of the action, and swiched to .45 acp.

So have you ever shot a 10mm semiauto? Have you thought about this? Personally, I'd go with the 610 because you can shoot .40 S&W out of it too, and the recoil impulse would feel better to me in a revolver.

You know, Coonan Arms makes a 1911 in .357 magnum. If you're lobbing 180 gr hard cast bullets at a black bear, that would do the job ok.

Oh yeah, you could also get a regular 1911 in .45 acp and pick up a .460 Roland conversion too. You have a lot of options so don't limit your self too much. Personally, I carry a FNP-45 when hiking with 200 gr +P's. I think It's more effective for me, as follow up shots will be faster than a 10mm. But with enough practice, one could certainly master this.
Good luck to you.

If you want a revolver, you can get more (and more varied) performance with better ammo availability in a .44 mag.

I agree with this.

 

[David E]

I have had my eyes set on a 1911 in 10mm. I recently discovered the S&W 610, 10mm double action revolver.

It depends what, exactly, you want them for. Just because they're the same caliber doesn't mean they're equal at all tasks.

I own a revolver, so I'm familiar with them. I started to lean towards the 610 over a 1911. The only thing stopping me is - I do not like the double-action trigger of a revolver. in self-defense situations, I'm not going to be taking the time to set the action and any shots after the first will of course be DA.

No disrespect, but even tho you own "a revolver," you're not really familiar with them. By that I mean you haven't taken the time to master the DA pull on one.(many people haven't, so it's not just you) it's not hard to learn the proper technique and it really doesn't take that long....but the effort must be made.

And, since this particular gun is going to be primarily for self-defense (when hiking/camping vs 4-legged predators

You'll find the 610 too big and heavy to carry hiking. You'll stick it in your pack if you don't leave it back at camp. Then, if confronted by a 2 or 4 legged problem, you're SOL

and to keep as a truck gun vs 2-legged predators), I'm leaning back towards the 1911.

Any thoughts?

The 610 makes a better "truck gun," tho I detest any loaded gun being left unattended in any vehicle.

And your truck makes a better weapon against 2-legged threats than a handgun.

The gun I have chosen for woods carry/defense is the aforementioned Glock 20 for a variety of reasons and it would serve you well, also.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

You'll find the 610 too big and heavy to carry hiking.

This depends on the OP's size and build. I regularly hike with a 5" S&W 460 on my hip without a problem. I do wear suspenders under my shirt though to help keep my pants up though. It is a big chunk of steel, but the right sized person can carry it.

 

[g_one]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. A lot of things to take into consideration here. I think I'll stay clear of the Rowland conversion, but I may look back into the Glock as a good alternative. I think many of you are right in that if I'm going to go with a revolver, I'm better off in a different chambering.

 

[mljdeckard]

I see no reason at all any of these options are to big or heavy to carry hiking. Particularly where concealment is not a concern.

the truth is, I would love both of these options. If I had a 610, I could run .40s through it as well. DA revolver shooting does require some learning and practice, but I would have fun doing it. And yes, shooting it defensively not only requires it to be fired DA, a lot of defense masters will tell you to NEVER use SA, even to have the cocking notch and hammer spur cut OFF.

I also want to build a Fusion 10mm kit, even if it is a ways down the list. Long-slide.

I am not as worried about having a supported chamber, the companies that build them know what they are doing. I think the real danger for an unsupported chamber is over-zealous handloading.

And yes, there's no shortage of G-20s out there. If you want one just to have one, that's probably the easiest, most standardized option. But for ME, the reason I got rid of my Glock 22 and went back to a 1911, is because whenever I shot the Glock, I kept wishing it had a 1011 trigger. You do what you want man, but I HATE shooting one gun, while wishing it was another.

 

[DC Plumber]

Well, I live in Wisconsin, and in fact am heading up to Hayward for a 5 day shooting weekend with the guys. Obviously in Hayward, there are black bears, wolves and plenty of two legged predators. I've been going up there for nearly 30 years and have never had a wildlife scare, except for this one bar..........but I digress. I wouldn't feel undergunned with .357, in fact one of my various hiking guns is a L frame .357 with a 4" barrel. More than enough. Sometimes I carry my 1911 45acp just because, and sometimes I only carry my Ruger 22/45. Bears and wolves are way over rated. Watch out for the two legged ones in my opinion.

 

[David E]

This depends on the OP's size and build. I regularly hike with a 5" S&W 460 on my hip without a problem. I do wear suspenders under my shirt though to help keep my pants up though. It is a big chunk of steel, but the right sized person can carry it.

If they WANT to, sure, especially if they NEED to for a particular threat.

I'd rather carry a Model 29 .44 magnum over any 610

 

[agtman]

10mm 1911 v. S&W 610.

I have both.

Love my 6.5" S&W 610. It's an accurate, sweet-shooting hog-leg.



But for the primary purpose the O.P. stated, my choice would be the 10mm 1911. Even a stock Delta, with just a few basic mods for handling & reliabilty (like stiffer springs & and properly fitted EGW f.p. stop) would be fine.





That said, for deep woods/boonie carry against any 2- or 4-legged predators I might encounter, my personal first choice (absent a rifle) would be my 15+1 Glock 20, loaded hot w/ FMJs.

 

[DesertFox]

+1 here too. The 610 is a sweet shooter. So is the 310NG. The ability to alternately shoot 40S&W is a bonus. N-frame, to me, is a pretty big, heavy unit so if I'm carrying it for hunting or backup while hunting, I'll tend to grab a 629 instead. Especially if in griz country. But if 2 legged is more the concern, 610 or 310 is wonderful. Revolvers go "bang" when the trigger is pulled and can be pulled again if it doesn't. 610 really does a number on bowling pins, BTW... Don't forget about the 627 8 shot 357 Mag...

Delta Elite is awesome. One of my favorite 1911s. Shoots more like a 38 Super than 45ACP. But for a carry piece? No.

One of my prerequisites for a carry unit is that it not be an heirloom, expensive, ohmygodi'lldieifiloseit type of piece. Which makes the disposable Glock very attractive. They make more every day... G29 w/ G20 mags makes for a compact, potent package. Corrosion resistant and mags readily available (ask me about my $100/ea G20 mag collection) now.

Truck gun? Yeah... I started pulling everything out of the truck as I did not like the idea of someone stealing the vehicle or breaking in and obtaining... Even if it means I have to make several trips to clear the truck.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

S&W 610

I have one with a 4inch barrel and it shoots great with both 10mm and 40S&W.

 

[Dan-O]

I have a 5" 610-1 and love it. But it's a range toy. 610's aren't cheap, and they're not easy to come by.

Like some others have said, I'd go with a G-20, or G-29.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If they WANT to, sure, especially if they NEED to for a particular threat.

Yep, I only carry mine in grizz country, not anywhere else.

 

[Robert101]

I went with the DW PM-7 10MM. Fusion is a very good alternative and just behind it is the Colt Delta Elite. I feel the Dan Wesson model is in the middle.

I love wheel guns but prefer the 1911 for my 10MM.

 

[intercooler]

Fusions and Deltas don't have good support. Get a Dan Wesson or Kimber if going 1911.