I just purchased an 11-87 police and found a problem initially with feeding and ejecting "low brass loads". I am now told that the automatics are more finicky about ammo. How finicky? What shells do you recommend? Do I have to shoot high powered loads or can I save my shoulder?
11-87 with low-recoil loads?
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Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Semiautos are indeed more apt to be finicky about their ammo. Find something that this one will run that is not uncomfortable to shoot (a heavier field load, for instance) and give it a 200- 300 round break-in period with those. Then give it a good cleaning and a proper lube job and try it with the RR fodder.
For 'serious' use, be sure you feed it something that it will function with 100% of the time. Try Hornady TAP 00 8-pellet loads (red hull) for buckshot and Kent/Brenneke KO slugs, those are both full house loads but shouldn't be unbearable in a gas gun.
lpl/nc
For 'serious' use, be sure you feed it something that it will function with 100% of the time. Try Hornady TAP 00 8-pellet loads (red hull) for buckshot and Kent/Brenneke KO slugs, those are both full house loads but shouldn't be unbearable in a gas gun.
lpl/nc
Rob62
Member
My 11-87 never functioned properly with low brass, i.e. cheap field loads. Actually, cheap low brass ammo would not cycle the action at all.
IIRC the instruction manual even said that these types of loads would not function a 11-87. Because of this reasn I ended up selling it. As far as I know there is no work around to this problem.
Shotguns *should* be able to shoot all types of appropiate length ammo.
Regards,
Rob
IIRC the instruction manual even said that these types of loads would not function a 11-87. Because of this reasn I ended up selling it. As far as I know there is no work around to this problem.
Shotguns *should* be able to shoot all types of appropiate length ammo.
Regards,
Rob
Thanks for the replies. I hope I don't end up needing to get rid of the gun, but I am willing to go back to an 870. I agree that the gun should be able to run the "usual" loads including field loads, but se la vie(sp). I was comforted by the fact that many police departments and three gun competitors run 11-87's. I know the military uses a lot of Benellis, are these more reliable or more comfortable? By the way, I put a Surefire foreend on it, and it is very nice. I haven't found a good source for ammo yet either, so a recommendation would be nice. Lastly, I noticed that Vang Comp will not guarantee their work if one runs field loads through it. I don't know if this is a related issue or not.
richardschennberg
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Recoil-operated shotguns such as Benelli M-1 and M-2 need medium to heavy loads in terms of momentum (velocity times shot charge), so stick with 1 1/8 oz. Gas operated guns like Rem 11-87 are a bit more finicky but you can reduce the shot charge as long as the powder charge is medium to heavy, i.e. high velocity 1 oz or even 7/8 oz loads may work in a gas-operated 12 gauge shotgun. Any shotgun may work better with a particular load, especially just before cleaning. So try a box of 25 of any given brand and type when the gun is slightly but not excessively dirty. You may find that some shells are almost 100% reliable in your gun and others may wind up on your do-not-buy or save-for-the-pump list.
Richard
Schennberg.com
Richard
Schennberg.com
Rob62
Member
I just looked up the info in a Remington 11-87 manual.
Per page 11 of the manual -
“Model 11-87 Super Magnum Owners Please Note: ……Loads lighter than 2.75” 3 dram 1 7/8 oz loads may not create enough energy to fully cycle the bolt of the firearm.”
Not sure if this info is relevant to non “Super Magnum” model owners as mine was the Super Mag model. But believe it is. As I posted above my gun never would function properly with any of the inexpensive low brass shells.
For a source of inexpensive buckshot and slugs, try http://www.sportsmansguide.com/. Good prices, but they are back ordered on a lot of ammo right now.
Good luck with your gun.
Regards,
Rob
Per page 11 of the manual -
“Model 11-87 Super Magnum Owners Please Note: ……Loads lighter than 2.75” 3 dram 1 7/8 oz loads may not create enough energy to fully cycle the bolt of the firearm.”
Not sure if this info is relevant to non “Super Magnum” model owners as mine was the Super Mag model. But believe it is. As I posted above my gun never would function properly with any of the inexpensive low brass shells.
For a source of inexpensive buckshot and slugs, try http://www.sportsmansguide.com/. Good prices, but they are back ordered on a lot of ammo right now.
Good luck with your gun.
Regards,
Rob
shane justice
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Dude,
What's a shotty like that cost?
Shane
What's a shotty like that cost?
Shane
Roadwild17
Member
In the LE mag Remington even says " For Training and Familiarization, this versatile shotgun also handles lighter loads (although not intended for use with reduced recoil products). I don't know if you have a P model, but there shouldn't be that much of a difference between a short load and a reduced recoil load, right???
She does sound nice,, any pics???
She does sound nice,, any pics???
I purchased it at a gun show this weekend. It was a police instructor's trade-in. I don't know what they traded for. Paid $600. The Surefire forend was the one without the cutoff switch, the T model. I would recommend the S model with the cutoff switch. Burned out my batteries accidentally in the case. Will try to post some pics.
I have taken it to the range some more and have shot various loads without problems. I'm new to shotguns, but now know why they call them scatterguns. Devastating.
I have taken it to the range some more and have shot various loads without problems. I'm new to shotguns, but now know why they call them scatterguns. Devastating.
I run some pretty low powered bloop loads through my 11-87 duck gun when the kids are using it to shoot (at) clays with nary a problem.
Next time you take the fore-end off, make sure the gas ports are clear, and the piston and seal are OK. You may need to buy new seals; here's a link to the parts from Brownells. FWIW, I replace the rubber gas seal on my gun every 1000 (or so) rounds.
Next time you take the fore-end off, make sure the gas ports are clear, and the piston and seal are OK. You may need to buy new seals; here's a link to the parts from Brownells. FWIW, I replace the rubber gas seal on my gun every 1000 (or so) rounds.
I found through research on AR's that JP Rifles builds competition 11-87's and rebuilds the gas system to run reduced recoil loads reliably. Their prices seem good, too.
http://www.jprifles.com/ShotgunPerformancePackage.html
http://www.jprifles.com/ShotgunPerformancePackage.html
From the JP Rifles instruction page used without their permission:
The key to reliability with the 1100/1187 type shotguns is two-fold. FIrst, use only factory ammo with high port pressure that you have used extensively in practice and verified its reliability. Don’t use reloads or some cheap promotional loads not designed to cycle semi auto shotguns. For example, if it says something like “dove and quail” or “Squirrel and rabbit” on the box, and sells for $2.49 at Walmart, don’t use it. If you’re looking for some cheap practice ammo, try Federal High Velocity Game 7/8 OZ loads at 1400 FPS (Fed HVG 12). Walmart usually has these for about $3.50/box. I’ve found that they are quite reliable and have enough port pressure to give a quick cycle on the gun which results in a snappy feel that we’re looking for. The important thing is to verify the reliabiltiy of any ammo you wish to use at a match before you get there. For example, not every ammo that happens to say 1 1/8 ounce, 3 dram equivalent on the end of the box will cycle the gun. The port pressure may not be adequate in a ported shotgun. If you can’t travel with your ammo, ship it to a friend or make sure you can buy something that you absolutely know works in your gun when you get to the match. Second, proper maintainence is essential for the Remington 1100/1187 shotguns. The most important maintenance item is keeping the outside of the magazine tube clean. After every match or shooting session, remove the barrel and forend. Slide the gas rings off of the mag tube and with the action in the locked open position, remove the fouling from the outside of the mag tube with an oily rag. If it has become encrusted, a piece of ScotchBrite may be needed. Clean any build up in the gas collar and pistol travel area off with a solvent and piece of fine ScotchBrite if necessary. Failure to remove the residue from the outside of the mag tube results in the build up getting very hard and stopping the piston assembly from sliding freely on the tube. Run the tube dry or lubricate with powdered graphite for actual match use but store with an oil film when not in use. Every so often is is also necessary to clean the inside of the gas collar using the same method. The action and barrel do not have to be cleaned as often, however the chamber will accumulate a build up of plastic wad material and powder residue which should be brushed out to insure the cartridges easily go into battery.
The key to reliability with the 1100/1187 type shotguns is two-fold. FIrst, use only factory ammo with high port pressure that you have used extensively in practice and verified its reliability. Don’t use reloads or some cheap promotional loads not designed to cycle semi auto shotguns. For example, if it says something like “dove and quail” or “Squirrel and rabbit” on the box, and sells for $2.49 at Walmart, don’t use it. If you’re looking for some cheap practice ammo, try Federal High Velocity Game 7/8 OZ loads at 1400 FPS (Fed HVG 12). Walmart usually has these for about $3.50/box. I’ve found that they are quite reliable and have enough port pressure to give a quick cycle on the gun which results in a snappy feel that we’re looking for. The important thing is to verify the reliabiltiy of any ammo you wish to use at a match before you get there. For example, not every ammo that happens to say 1 1/8 ounce, 3 dram equivalent on the end of the box will cycle the gun. The port pressure may not be adequate in a ported shotgun. If you can’t travel with your ammo, ship it to a friend or make sure you can buy something that you absolutely know works in your gun when you get to the match. Second, proper maintainence is essential for the Remington 1100/1187 shotguns. The most important maintenance item is keeping the outside of the magazine tube clean. After every match or shooting session, remove the barrel and forend. Slide the gas rings off of the mag tube and with the action in the locked open position, remove the fouling from the outside of the mag tube with an oily rag. If it has become encrusted, a piece of ScotchBrite may be needed. Clean any build up in the gas collar and pistol travel area off with a solvent and piece of fine ScotchBrite if necessary. Failure to remove the residue from the outside of the mag tube results in the build up getting very hard and stopping the piston assembly from sliding freely on the tube. Run the tube dry or lubricate with powdered graphite for actual match use but store with an oil film when not in use. Every so often is is also necessary to clean the inside of the gas collar using the same method. The action and barrel do not have to be cleaned as often, however the chamber will accumulate a build up of plastic wad material and powder residue which should be brushed out to insure the cartridges easily go into battery.
sgist, if I'm not mistaken the 11-87 has only one gas port where as the l100 like I have has two. The single port is sufficient for operating the gun with more powerful 2&3/4 loads and 3 inch loads but not the less powerful low brass loads. Pull the barrel off and take a look and you will see one single gas port. I read somewhere that someone, maybe Remington but not for sure, were able to properly drill a second port for you for the use of low brass. Only hitch was when you switched back to magnum type loads you had to put a supplied plug into the second hole. Not very practical. One thing you might try is remove the barrel and take a very stiff wire the same size of the gas port and clean it out real good. I use a drill bit, shank end of course because it is stiff and firm. You would be surprised how fast crud accumulates in that little gas port and restricts the gas flow. Even my 1100 has refused to eject some low brass trap loads at times and I had to clean the ports out for it to function properly. Good luck.
BlisteringSilence
Member
I'd also like to take up the use of "low brass" vs. "high brass" in the discourse. This is a misnomer. You cannot look at a shell and tell anything about its power by the height of the brass on the cartridge. For example, fiocchi white rhino rounds are low brass, but VERY high power (Max powder load with 1.125oz shot loads, 1250 FPS, available in #7.5 to #9). By that same token, you can find low recoil loads (around 2.75 dram, 1oz shot) in high brass shotshells.
I guess the real question here is what kinds of rounds are you looking at shooting out of this new toy of yours? If this is a home defense weapon, are you going to go with slugs, sabots, large caliber buck (00), small caliber buck (#2, #4)? You can always fine ammo that will work with your weapon, the first step is to decide what you want to do with it.
I guess the real question here is what kinds of rounds are you looking at shooting out of this new toy of yours? If this is a home defense weapon, are you going to go with slugs, sabots, large caliber buck (00), small caliber buck (#2, #4)? You can always fine ammo that will work with your weapon, the first step is to decide what you want to do with it.
Stony Lane
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Try a "barrel seal activator"
Remington has a "barrel seal activator" that is used with their 11-87 super magnum. Just slide this ring (activator) on the magazine tube between your piston seal assembly and the barrel seal (o-ring). This will allow your 11-87 police to reliably shoot lighter loads. Remington sent me one FREE!
[I bought my 11-87 police used and I've shot Federal low recoil #4 buckshot even without the "activator" ring.]
Remington has a "barrel seal activator" that is used with their 11-87 super magnum. Just slide this ring (activator) on the magazine tube between your piston seal assembly and the barrel seal (o-ring). This will allow your 11-87 police to reliably shoot lighter loads. Remington sent me one FREE!
[I bought my 11-87 police used and I've shot Federal low recoil #4 buckshot even without the "activator" ring.]
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