154g Interbond in 7mm

[azar]

I'm trying to develop an elk load using the Hornady 154g Interbond in my 7mm Remington Magnum. I didn't have any great success in my gun using the Hornady #7 load for Reloader 22. I got one okay grouping about 2 grains below max, but it was only moving 2,666 fps out of my gun. Not quite what I'd like to see for an elk hunt.

Does anyone have any favorite loads with this bullet / caliber combo?

The others powders I have on hand that may be suitable are:
Reloader 19
IMR 4350
Ramshot Magnum
Ramshot Hunter

Anyone have any "winners"?

 

[NCsmitty]

All the powders you list will do the job. All will drive the Hornady 2900-3000fps, but it's your job to pick the most accurate.
Use the online data at the different manufacturer/distributor websites. Don't rely on a single source of data.
There really is no shortcuts to working up an accurate load, and it's possible that the Hornady IB won't work well in that rifle.

NCsmitty

 

[azar]

NCsmitty,

I figured that all of these would be suitable which is why I listed them. But I can't find any data in any of the manuals I have or online for this bullet and caliber combo.

Basically I'm just looking for a safe starting and max charge for each of the powders (actually Ramshot Magnum is listed in Hornady #7, but the other three aren't). I know that my gun is different and will likely have different sweet spots, but it's always nice to know what others have identified.

I'll likely try a faster powder (RL-19 or IMR 4350) and a slower powder (Ramshot Magnum) than Reloader 22 to see if either works better. I'm just looking for a place to start.

 

[NCsmitty]

azar, you'll find that being weight specific is far more important than being bullet and brand specific. If you cannot find an exact matching bullet weight, then go to the next higher weight like 160gr. Using the loads for the heavier weights will prove very safe and a good place to start as they usually are lower charges than the lighter bullets.
I trust the powder manufacturer's data more than the bullet makers data, but that's just me.
Here's some links to data.

http://www.accuratearms.com/

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

http://www.hodgdon.com/

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

NCsmitty

 

[azar]

Well, I emailed Hornady, Alliant, and Hodgdon. So far, I've heard back from Alliant. For Reloder 19 They suggested 60.0g as a starting load and 65.0g as a max.

Hopefully I'll hear back from the other two.

 

[cdet69]

i shoot a 7mmSTW and have found H1000 to be real accurate. should work in 7mm rem also.

 

[azar]

cdet69,

H1000 is a powder I'd like to try, as is the newer Hybrid 100V. However, I'd first like to try what I have on hand. I don't have enough spare money right now to justify grabbing a new powder.

NCsmitty,

Thanks for that data! The max loads for Reloder 19 are close to what Alliant gave me. It's nice to get multiple sources of information. Hopefully Hodgdon will provide an IMR 4350 load and perhaps Hornady will get back to me with loads for any of the above.

 

[NCsmitty]

As you probably know, Ramshot Hunter is a near match to REL-19 and Ramshot Magnum is between H1000 and REL-25. That may be a little too slow, but you never know.

NCsmitty

 

[GooseGestapo]

FWIW; I've gotten my best results in the 7mmRemMag with either H4350 or H4831.

I've gotten some good results with RL22 in some other cartridges but it wasn't my favorite it the 7mag......

Best 120gr load was with H4350, and best 140 and 150 loads with H4831. I actually got better accuracy as I approached listed max in the Hodgdon manual, which is typical from my experience with their data. Often they stop when accuracy peaked, though pressures are still well below max....... But, nevertheless, go carefully, and I don't recommend exceeding their max loads.....

I suggest just using their on-line data.......no need to e-mail them.

 

[azar]

NCsmitty,

Yeah I knew that Hunter was close to RL-19. I'd still like either a) an "official" loading from the bullet or powder manufacturer or b) an experienced reloaders start and max load. Not a big deal though. My preference in trying different powders will be RL-19, then IMR 4350, then Ramshot Magnum, then Ramshot Hunter. I've got a response from Alliant on a suggested load and then the loads you provided which correlate pretty well with one another.

I'm hoping I find a good load with RL-19 so I don't have to keep looking. I plan to load up the first batches tonight starting at 60.0g of RL-19.

GooseGestapo,

I'll probably grab either IMR 4831 or H4831SC eventually since both are popular and well suited to the 7mm Rem Mag. But for now though, the whole tight wallet thing is getting in the way. I think (hope anyway) that with the powders I already have that I should be able to get an accurate load with this bullet, if it can be done in my gun.

 

[627PCFan]

My recommendation is Imr4831 for Hunting loads and H1000 for target. I dont think you can go wrong-

 

[azar]

Well, I went to load up some plinking ammo for my 6.5x55 using Ramshot Hunter and when I took the jug down I saw it said "Ramshot Magnum". Thinking I grabbed the wrong one I grabbed the one that I thought was Ramshot Magnum and... it was Ramshot Magnum. So, I don't apparently need any loads for Ramshot Hunter anymore.

I'm still very interested in an IMR 4350 / 154g Interbond 7mm Rem Mag load if anyone has one. Still no word from Hornady or Hodgdon...

I did a set of loads using Reloder 19, but haven't had a chance to test them yet. Thanks again for that NCsmitty.

 

[ForneyRider]

What was your amount? I saw 2gr from max, but did not see what the max was.

I use R22 with my 7mm Mag loads as well as some R25.

I have 120gr V-Max, 139gr SST, and 162gr Interlock loads with R22.

I have gotten very slow velocity with R25 (68gr MAX) with 162gr Interlock. 2784fps I think was the observed speed, but ~3000fps was the load data speed. I saw another load data that said 70gr (MAX) of R25 for ~3000fps. One grain can be 100fps different, so you have to test.

26in barrel is pretty common for Remington 7mm magnum cartridges and load data. I notice many of my loads are not far off except for the R25 ones.

extracted from Alliant powder site:

145gr Speer
Remington case 3.28in OAL 24in barrel CCI 250 R-22 68gr 3,136fps

160gr Speer
Remington case 3.28in OAL 24in barrel CCI 250 R-22 65gr 2,976fps


I would load up in .5 gr increments to max. Just make a few of each to test. Sucks having to pull apart a bunch of them.

I had been doing trickling and powder measures, but recently went with RCBS Chargemaster. When I pulled my loads made with Lee PPM, I was off as much as .8gr.

 

[azar]

ForneyRider,

Some of my load info:
New Winchester brass, full-length resized, and trimmed to 2.490"
Federal 215 Large Rifle Magnum primers
C.O.A.L. w/ Reloder 22 3.290" (Book suggested length, hadn't used the OAL gauge at this point)
C.O.A.L. w/ Reloder 19 3.370" (measured the lands at 3.390")

I got a 1.499 inch group (at 100 yards) using 61.7g of Reloder 22 and it clocked traveling at 2,666 fps. That was the best grouping with Reloder 22 I was able to get. The worst was a 3.069 inch group at the next load up of 62.5g of Reloder 22 traveling at 2,774 fps. Hornady #7 lists a max of 63.4g of Reloder 22 with their 154g bullets.

Hornady's load is a bit lighter than some 160g bullets out there and a fair bit lower than the Lyman #49 load for the Hornady 154g Interlock SP. So I emailed Hornady and asked them about the discrepancy. I asked if the the 154g loads were kept conservative because of the 154g round nose (my guess was it built pressure quicker than the others). Their response was:

Actually the Interbond bullet builds the most pressure of all our bullets listed here. If you are not seeing pressure in your rifle it may have a longer throat. You can work up loads carefully and about 2 tenths of a grain at a time.

So, I felt a bit reluctant to exceed Hornady's published max load since the interbond builds pressure the quickest of the 7mm 154g bullets. That's why I decided to try other powders.

I had a chance to shoot the first two Reloder 19 loads this last Saturday. The starting load (60.0g Reloder 19) clocked at 2,771 fps and grouped at 4.391 inches. :banghead: That's my worst handloaded group ever. The next load at 60.7g clocked at 2,814 fps and gave me 1.800 inches. Acceptable group size for a hunting load, although it's still 0.800 inches bigger than I'd like to see it. Even the velocity is at least getting in the range I'd like to see.

I'm not sure if it's my gun, these bullets, my shooting, or a combination of them, but whatever it is it is definitely frustrating.

 

[ForneyRider]

If you like, we can swap bullets and I can make a load with r22. I have winchester and remington brass. I have cci primers though.

 

[azar]

If you like, we can swap bullets and I can make a load with r22. I have winchester and remington brass. I have cci primers though.

I appreciate the offer and will give it some consideration. My guess is it's either the combination of my gun not liking these bullets, or it's the bullets themselves. I bought 2 100 round boxes from Midway USA in January during the "blemished bullet" sale at $27.00 / 100. Some of the bullets have very noticeably bent tips, some of the bent tips you only notice if you do the "roll test", and others vary in weight. Perhaps I should have been more careful and weighed and sorted each round since these are the "blemished" rounds. I did try and find the ones with noticeably bent tips though.

Most of the bullets however were very consistent with minor weight fluctuations and non-bent tips. I'd say maybe 1 in 10 was "bad", worst case maybe 1 in 8. So, overall I think my groups should still be better than where they have been.

The reason I don't think it was my shooting (although I'm willing to admit it very well could be) was that I was testing my 6.5x55 Swede at the same time. I tested two loads out of that gun. The first 4 shots grouped and 1", with one high pushing the whole group out to 1.5". The second 5 shot group measured 1.1". So, I know I'm capable of shooting 1 MOA with my mauser and I was very careful to be consistent with each shot with no flinch with both guns.

I decided I needed to know a little more what my gun likes and whether or not it's this particular bullet in my gun. I've heard some people claim their guns like certain bullet weights over others. Having only shot 12 factory rounds (all from the same box of Hornady Custom 162g BTSP) out of it when I sighted it in, I didn't really know how other factory rounds would do. My 3-shot group size with the Hornady factory load after sighting it in was around 0.80".

So, I purchased some of the less expensive standard ammo. 1 box of Winchester 150g Super-X, 1 box of Winchester 175g Super-X, and 1 box of Federal 175g Power-Shok. Between the remaining Hornady and these three other boxes of factory loads I should have a good general idea of how my gun shoots with Factory rounds.

 

[ForneyRider]

I had really good luck with some 150gr Winchester from Wal-Mart for like 19$ at the time. I still use the brass for loads. They put a brass-smushing crimp on the brass, but it trims off after a few resizings. It has held up great.

Nosler Ballistic Tips are very accurate hunting ammo bullets.

Sierra SMK 168gr are excellent as well.

I typically reload the 120gr (VMax, Nosler BT) and 139gr (SST) and then the 162 (Interlock) and 168gr (SMK) bullets. All of these have done "hunting" accuracy.

The bonded bullets are expensive, especially for target/plinking. Quality bullets are big factor in accuracy. I read the Handloader Journal where the writer compared a ton of 308 Win bullets. The Bergers, Lapua Scenars and SMK won out over the SP bullets by big margin.

Still, a 5in group at 100 yards with a 7mm Mag is good enough for lots of hunting.

 

[azar]

Well, even though there is nothing "premium" about Winchester Super-X ammo I've found it always shoots well out of whatever gun and whatever caliber I run it through. It's often my go-to cheap factory ammo.

Part of the reason for testing with Factory ammo is that if I can't get it to group well with any of the four factory loads, I can potentially send it back to Ruger and have it checked (inaccurate handloads don't count). If they won't perform any warranty work on it and I still can't get it to group was well as I'd like I'm considering having it free-floated and glass bedded. Most people complain about stock factory Ruger triggers, but I'm quite pleased with mine so I'm not sure I'd bother with trigger work.

Hopefully though, my gun will pattern well with at least 1 of the factory loads. It already patterned well with the Hornady, but it was only a 3 shot group so maybe it was a fluke. If it does group well with one or more of the factory loads, I'll move on to loading a different bullet.

Most people seem to recommend a premium bullet for Elk hunting. So I was thinking of trying the Nosler accubonds next as they are a bit cheaper than the Partitions, the Barnes TSX, the Speer Grandslams, etc. Not much, but about $4-$5 per 50.

What do you guys think? Will a regular Interlock or GameKing work well for Elk or is it really recommended having a bonded or partitioned bullet?

 

[NCsmitty]

azar, you do need to shoot 5 shot groups to really show the tendency of the load.
Some rifles do not shoot the premium bullets well and some do. Shooting Interlocks or Gamekings will do the job as long as the shots are not under 100yds or so. High velocity brings out the worst in the cheaper bullets at close range.
I know that your frustrated with your rifle's inability to group to your satisfaction, but not all stock rifles are going to group MOA, regardless of load. That is just a fact. Sometimes it's up to you to modify the rifle to try to achieve your goal.
I don't believe Ruger guarantees MOA for their rifles and seriously doubt that they will be able to help you there, but I could be wrong as they are a good reputable company with a good customer relations office.

If it was mine, I would float the barrel and bed the action. This procedure has always given me a positive, group tightening result and I recommend it.

It's good that your being careful in your reloads, but sometimes you need to push your loads a little harder to get the best groups. That could be contributing to the problem.
Chrono your factory loads and see how they stack up against your reloads. If the factory loads are substantially higher, you know that you need to boost your loads a bit. It could make the difference.
IMO, Ramshot Magnum and it's near twin Rel-25 will not give you the performance that you want, they're just too slow.


NCsmitty

 

[azar]

Yeah, I probably should have shot a 5 shot group originally with the Hornady Factory loads. Luckily I still have 8 left, so we'll see what I can do with 5 more shots.

I know that not all rifles can get MOA and I am keenly aware that Ruger may not do any warranty work on it. I was reading in the owners manual and I noticed something about "Regarding Accuracy".

Basically, the manual stated that the accuracy of any rifle can vary depending upon the make and cartridge (of course). If your rifle does not perform as expected try several brands of factory loads to determine which one delivers the best accuracy. If your rifle is not as "accurate" as you believe it should be do the following checks:

1. Check the trigger guard screws and the floorplate hinge screw (Checked: All of them snug, as far as I can tell.)

2. Be certain the bore is clean from accumulated metal fouling. (Also done, more than once).

3. Check the sights for tightness, setting, and alignment. (Everything seems great here too).

It goes on to say: DO NOT alter the stock bedding in any way. Do not scrape away wood and do not bed with "glass", plastic, epoxy, etc. Once a rifle has been altered it cannot be reworked by their product service department. If you still have accuracy problems write a brief letter to their product service department and describe the nature of the problem based on factory-loaded cartridges -- not reloads. If they determine it is the rifle, it can be sent in for a return. So, I thought before I sent it to a gunsmith for the free-floating and glass bedding I should at least check a couple of different factory loads first. If all of them group poorly there is at least a chance Ruger will do something about it.

So, that's why I bought three more boxes of factory loads. Three boxes of the cheapo stuff came to $74.xx!! Man, that's one of the reasons I love reloading. Anyway, if the factory stuff shoots well I'll develop the most accurate load I can with the Interbonds (even if it's 1.5") and move on to another bullet. So it goes.

Although, I am still interested in free-floating and glass bedding it. Anyone know typical gunsmith rates for these? Having never done it I'd prefer not to experiment with my new rifle. Although I guess I could always try my hand on my Mosin...

I plan to continue to test the Reloder 19 loads, but instead of two loads per range visit I'll shoot 5 shots from one of the factory loads (also across the chrony to see where they clock in at) and a set of my own reloads.

I'm not sure WHEN I'll be able to shoot next as I really only have time on Saturdays and my next couple of Saturdays are booked.

I appreciate everyone's help and I'll try and keep you posted.

 

[ForneyRider]

I thought M77 was not factory bedded but the Hawkeye is. New Hawkeye also has the LC6 trigger, which is supposed to be very nice.

Trigger job, glass bedded action should make do wonders for the M77 Ruger.

I looked at Elk hunts this winter, and for 7k it won't be any time soon, but one of the outfitter's recommended a 300 Win Mag and stated the shots were around 200 yards typically. This was just one of the many outfitters I came across Internet researching my next hunt.

IMHO, Hornady SST, Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, and the Barnes bullets are toughest on the market. Of these SST, is cheaper and very strong. A reload, I made with 130gr in a 270, went through a 10pt's shoulder and clear through the other side. It use a cannelure to crimp the jacket to lead core, instead of bonding, and is accurate. The Partition is designed to explode like the Ballistic Tip on the forend of the bullet, but pile through with the back half of the bullet.

I'm not sold on the bonded bullet hype. I am looking at the E-Tips, Hornady GMX, Barnes etc. for hunting this year.

 

[azar]

ForneyRider,

I believe you are correct with regards to the M77. I am not aware if the Hawkeye is factory bedded or not but I do know they come with the newer, nicer LC6 trigger. Ruger has a bad rep for crappy triggers, but the trigger on my M77 MarkII is much, much better than I expected. Good enough that getting a trigger job is a low priority. And I wasn't meaning to imply that I thought that my M77 was already bedded and/or free-floated. Only that Ruger won't do warranty work if you have it done. If it groups around 2" with factory ammo, I'm pretty sure they won't consider that a defective gun (nor should they really). In that case, I'm going to get price quotes on free-floating and glass bedding from a local gunsmith.

Anyone know what typical gunsmith prices are for free-floating and bedding of the action?

 

[azar]

Well, after two rounds of loads (RL-22 followed by RL-19) I never did get these bullets to group out of my gun. I have since purchased IMR 7828 SSC and still have plenty of Ramshot Magnum around. I will probably try again with one of those powders or wait until I get some RL-25.

What has been your best performing powder in a 7mm RM with the 154 to 175 grain bullets?

RL-25 is a very popular choice on other websites.
IMR 7828 is another.
What about the new Winchester 780 Supreme? Retumbo? H-1000?

Any favorites or stand-outs?

 

[MMCSRET]

The old standby for several 7MM Remington Magnum shooters of my aquaintence has been IMR 4831. It came out about a few years after the cartridge and has proven itself many times. It is especially good with the Hornady 162 gr. family of bullets.

 

[ForneyRider]

I use R22 for bullets 120gr to 160gr. IMR4831 would work great as well.
I use R25 for 168gr bullets, but may try IMR 4350 or R22 for those.