158 gr jacketed .357 Mag question

[Quoheleth]

Been loading cast lead bullets for the past couple years. I'm able to get to <1100fps (per the manuals; no chrono) using Titegroup over my 158 LSWC. Not bad, but not exactly "high performance." Thinking about laying in a supply of 158 grain JHPs for getting the most out of my .357 Magnum.

I know there are lots of good powders out there - I've been doing my homework via "search."

Couple questions:
One, anyone use AA#5 with standard 158 grain JHP? I see both Accurate's website and Lee's manual do not list AA#5 with regular 158gr jacketed, but do list it with Hornady XTP.

Two, what's the diff between "regular" and XTP that the load data is not interchangeable?

Three, for the 158 grain JHPs, how does Lil' Gun stack up against other tried-n-true powders? I'm reading how some of you are getting some pretty hot numbers in carbines with LG. I don't want to dance on that ragged edge of too hot, but I want to put together something on the higher end of magnum loads. I have no brand preference, but like what I've read about AA#9, esp. if I also want to work up some 180 grain XTPs for hogs next fall.

Thanks,
Q

FWIW, in my powder box, I have Bullseye, Universal, AA#5 and TG.

 

[buck460XVR]

For me Lil' Gun works better with the 170-180 grainers in .357. With 158 XTPs, I still get my best shooters with H110. That is in a 6'' 686.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Alliant 2400, H110 and W-296....All I got to say on the subject...

 

[loadedround]

The new Speer catalog #14 lists their 158 gr jacketed bullets with a starting load of 9.0 gr AA#5 and a maximum of 10.0 gr. Hope this helps you. XTP is just a trade name for Hornady bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like you said, there are many good powders for Jacketed bullets in a .357 Magnum. All will do a good job like W296/H110, Lil'Gun, 2400, AA#9 and Enforcer. I agree Lil'Gun shines when used with a slightly heavy for caliber bullet like a 170gr or 180gr bullet. I have been using Lil'Gun for my 180gr loads shot from my Carbine with very good success. If you want to buy only 1 powder you can also use Lil'Gun with your 158gr bullet loads too. I'm still using W296 and 2400 with 158gr bullets.

 

[pmeisel]

H110 and 2400 are my go tos for full power loads. I use Unique for mid-range. I am starting to experiment a little with 4227 based on things I have read elsewhere.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

A charge of around 14 grains of 2400 under a jacketed 158 works wonderfully for a full power load for most folks. Unless you get a chrono to watch things, I wouldn't go much higher than that though.

 

[rcmodel]

+1 on 2400.

Trying to use a fast burning target powder like Titegroup to get high velocity in a Magnum is akin to trying to move a bowling ball by hitting with your fist!

At least use a medium burn rate powder like Unique or similiar, or better still a slow burning powder intended for magnum velocity like 2400, H110, etc..

That translates to "pushing" the bowling ball rather then breaking your hand by hitting it a sharp jab.

Same goes for your gun as your hand-bones.

rc

 

[Quoheleth]

The reason I use Titegroup with my lead bullets is that it allows that kind of velocity without the higher pressure or leading I've experienced with other powders. (I mentioned this issue once on this forum and we got into virtual fisticuffs over pressure vs. velocity vs. lube vs BNI of my bullets, etc.)
I had been using AA#5, at first, to get the same velocity but had serious leading issues. The TG shoots clean - both in cases and in the barrel. That said, I know other powders are better for true magnum performance.

I appreciate the illustration of push vs. smack. Even a doofus like me can get that

I forgot to mention...my guns are Rugers, a 6" GP100 and a 3" SP101.

Will 2400 work for heavier bullets, too, like the 180 grainers?

Q

 

[rcmodel]

Yes.
That's what it does!

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I mentioned this issue once on this forum and we got into virtual fisticuffs over pressure vs. velocity vs. lube vs BNI of my bullets, etc

An excellent subject to discuss for sure.

I shoot light .357 using fast powders with plated bulllets to get a clean burn (125's at around 900/925 and 158's at around 725/750), but my midrange loads (125's at around 1300/1325) use a much slower, as well as bulky, powder to eliminate the "sharp jab" often associated with fast powders and high velocity.

AA #5 is a good powder for midrange .357 loads. (Jacketed 158's at around 900/950 FPS) It gives good accuracy, burns cleanly, and gives pretty good ES &SD numbers considering the airspace left in the case. It should do very well at your desired velocities of 1050 to 1100 FPS with 158's.

 

[41 Mag]

The following data is shown for comparrison purposes and is safe in my gun. IF you choose to use it work up slow from the starting loads listed for that particular powder.

My standard load for 158gr bullets, Win-WSPM primers, 16grs - 296.

I have used this load with various jacketed as well as a few cast bullets with great accuracy from several different revolvers. One thing about the XTP's is they seem to have a tad thicker jacket than other makes. This might be one reason for varied data. The above posted load has never shown any issues with pressure in any of the revolvers I have tried it in, and most shot it very well.

Other powders might get you what your looking for, or might not. I settled on using only three powders, (2400, 296, Unique,) years ago for 98% of all handgun loads. The only exception is my 10mm which uses AA-9. For everything else the previous mentioned powders work well for the loads I developed.

Good Luck

 

[Hikingman]

For me Lil' Gun works better with the 170-180 grainers in .357. With 158 XTPs, I still get my best shooters with H110. That is in a 6'' 686.

Look at the performance numbers on H110. Visit Hodgdon's website.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

no experience loading .357 but just got dies (and a GP100 4") and my nephew just got a 6" S&W.
very likely will load 125gr slugs - data for Power Pistol I have but wondering whether it's anywhere near optimum for the 125JHP slugs?
any feedback appreciated.

 

[Mark whiz]

I've found that AA#5 works really well in my 4" Ruger Security Six with both lead 158gr SWCs and with 158gr XTPs.

I use 7.5gr with the LSWCs to get 772fps and best accuracy of any lead load I've found to date.

For XTPs I use 8.2gr of AA#5 - although I haven't chrono'd this load it's a real good shooter.

For the record I've found that 16gr of Win296 shoots the XTPs just a tad more accurately at 1168fps.

As far as your question about XTPs compared to other jacketed bullets - in practical use, I've found no real difference between them and most other JHPs. Any load data for a "standard" JHP can be followed for XTPs - but like always work up your loads from the lower level for safety's sake.

Now the ONE bullet that I've found that reacts a little differently is the Speer Gold Dots. In every caliber I've loaded them in (.32acp, .38Spcl, .357Mag, .45acp), they always seem to get better accuracy with a load slightly lighter than XTPs or other JHPs.

 

[Quoheleth]

While reading Lee this afternoon, I noticed (for the first time) that he said XTPs are slightly longer than other bullets. Thus, if seated to the same OAL, you could wind up with a compressed load.

He cautioned the usual practice of starting low and working a load up, checking for pressure signs along the way.

mark whiz:

I use 7.5gr with the LSWCs to get 772fps and best accuracy of any lead load I've found to date.

I used AA#5 for those slower velocities, but would up with lots of unburned (unconsumed) powder left-over. It was clean shooting, though. When I tried to ramp it up to higher velocity, I got pretty bad leading, to the point that my 3" SP101 was slinging slugs like #2 Buckshot.

Q

 

[Mark whiz]

Can't say I ever noticed much of a problem with leading or unburned powder with the AA#5. I've been able to shoot 50 or more of that lead load at a time with no change in accuracy or any more of a leading issue than with any other load. How much of a crimp are you putting on your loads - that can make a difference with unpowered powder, I know Hod Universal is very sensitive to crimping. Although a 7gr load of Universal with the 158gr LSWC gives about as good of accuracy with a velocity of 1184fps.

I load more for accuracy than for velocity, so I never worked up the AA#5much more than that because accuracy did fall off with hotter loading.

 

[BIGTAZ351]

OAL?

I must be a newbie to reloading...(I've been doing it for 7 years) I rarely pay a lot of attention to the OAL figure, I make sure the case lengths are the same, and in spec but I use the "cannelure" or the groove in the XTP's 110,125, 158 and the 180's forward grove, and on my 158gr RN Casted Lead (can't remember the brand) projectiles they too have a groove. I put a heavy crimp on them as the recoil of my 4 inch 681 S&W wants to knock 'em loose. I use 158 gr. JHP and 158 XTP universally too.
I have not used AA#5 in the .357 but I have used 11.1gr of #7 and 14.2gr of #9 with the 158 XTP, they are not max loads but they are accurate. I tried Alliant Blue Dot, but it is really "dirty". I have tried win 231, but I usually save that powder for my .45acp. Whatever you load just remember to work up slowly, also I bought a Lyman book and it said 14.0 gr of #9 and a 180 XTP for a MAX load, I tried that....NOT GOOD, stick with what the POWDER MFG. says! Accurate says 13.0 and a 180XTP is max! Luckily it was just a broken cartridge case and not a broken gun, My dads Henry Lever. :banghead:

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I really think if you are going to use 158gr Jacketed bullets and will probably use a 180gr bullet in the future you should give Lil'Gun a try if you want to stock only 1 powder. According to the manuals Lil'Gun will generate less pressure than the other powders while matching the velocities. Like I said above, Lil'Gun will really shine with the heavier bullets while doing a great job with the 158gr bullets too.

From the Hodgdon Load Data site:
158 GR. HDY XTP W296 1.580" 15.0gr 1418 fps 28,600 CUP 16.7gr 1591 fps 40,700 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP H110 1.580" 15.0gr 1418 fps 28,600 CUP 16.7gr 1591 fps 40,700 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Lil'Gun 1.580" 16.0gr 1504 fps 24,100 CUP 18.0gr 1577 fps 25,800 CUP

180 GR. NOS PART W296 1.575" 13.0gr 1352 fps 36,800 CUP 13.5gr 1396 fps 39,100 CUP
180 GR. NOS PART H110 1.575" 13.0gr 1352 fps 36,800 CUP 13.5gr 1396 fps 39,100 CUP
180 GR. NOS PART Lil'Gun 1.575" 13.0gr 1279 fps 27,500 CUP 15.0gr 1422 fps 34,500 CUP

 

[novaDAK]

A charge of around 14 grains of 2400 under a jacketed 158 works wonderfully for a full power load for most folks. Unless you get a chrono to watch things, I wouldn't go much higher than that though.

I'm using a 14.4gr charge of 2400 behind 158gr LSWC. I used 550mag primers though since I had some but now that they're all gone I'm switching to 500 small pistol primers instead since the new reloading manuals call for them.

 

[under_dawg]

Marlin 45 carbine

no experience loading .357 but just got dies (and a GP100 4") and my nephew just got a 6" S&W.
very likely will load 125gr slugs - data for Power Pistol I have but wondering whether it's anywhere near optimum for the 125JHP slugs?
any feedback appreciated.

Be cautious loading 125 grainers too fast, the will erode your forcing cone. I know from experience. I have a GP-100. I load them slower now or use the 158 gr. I keep it loaded for self defense with the facory 125 grainers, but don't shoot hot ones (1300+ fps) any more.

 

[srini_durand]

H110, for me drops nice on 158 JHP and very easy to control at the high end for me, great hunting load behind a Sierra 158 gr JHC.

I have been playing AA#9 as of late, dropping only 2 lbs so far.
Why? because I can and there is no law yet saying I cannot. Does not drop as repeatable for me, on the Sqr D, but I am still working on the load. I tried it behind a 125 JHP and it did not impress me, but #9 shows promise on the 158 gr front.

 

[buck460XVR]

Look at the performance numbers on H110. Visit Hodgdon's website.

I've already downloaded all the info on loads I shoot from Hodgdon's website so I don't need to go visit, that said, I don't need Hodgdon's numbers to tell me what shoots the best outta my gun. I've shot 158s over both Lil' Gun and H110, and my 686 just seems to prefer H110 with 158s when it comes to accuracy.