16" vs. 20"

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P.B.Walsh

P.B.Walsh

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I'm looking at a DPMS 16" Tactical (the one with a 16" barrel and standard handgards) or a 20" barreld one. Any one know if there's a decrease in accuracy out to 500 yards using a sillouette target.
I will assume the 20" but for what it's worth the 16" in my opinion is better (long sight radius and a 16" barrel).
Which ever one I get I'm putting a Troy 13.8" handgard, 6 pos. stock flip up front sight and rear, possibly a vertical grip, a different grip, and hopefully a Beta 100 round mag.
Besides an optic of any sort this gun will be "tacticool" to oo and ah over, and it'll be a fun project.

But my main concern is accuracy. Any knowlede on this?

Or I could get a 20" and cut it to 18" and have the nest of both worlds? Any comments on this?
 
if your main concern is really accuracy then you want a varmint barrel like RRA offers probably in 20" or longer though some shorter barrels are just as accurate. if you are going with a tacticool rifle i would go with the 16" barrel. it will be accurate enough to hit a man at 500 or more depending on the shooter but you are not going to get tiny competition winning groups.
 
I think the 20" is best IMO, but with the accessories you are wanting a carbine would be a better fit.

CMMG makes an 18" upper. You should check them out. I think (IMO) that the 20" is better looking with a basic rifle configuration. It also is the best compromise for velocity/accuracy.
 
No, btw I'm not looking for match groups. I'm trying to train with am AR type rifle for the Marines (I know an A2 confg. Would be more appropriate) but I still want to dress it up a bit. So the varmit types are out of the question, and I can get the DPMS tactitcal 16" for about $1200 with all the upgrades I want from DPMS, semmes like a fair deal for me.

Then I'll put a Troy 13.8" with a low profile gas block, flip up sights (A2 carry handle for longer ranger because I think the Troy flip up sights go out to 200-300 yards), a Beta mag vertical grip, and a different pistol grip if I don't like the A2 grip.
 
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I'm trying to train with am AR type rifle for the Marines
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If you just enlisted, save your money. You'll need it when you can't find a job when you get out. Don't buy ammo at record high prices when in a few months Uncle Sam will give it to you for free. If you want to work on accuracy for qualifications, get a precision pellet rifle like an RWS for $200.
 
My vote is 16". But I am a fan of the shorter variants my self. ;)

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Also, the Marines will re-train you if you've already shot before.

If you haven't shot yet, you don't want to build any bad habits.

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Know I'm 15 and by training I ment learning to shoot with iron sights at extended ranges, like they do in baisic training.

Circle at 200 yards standing up
A2 sillouette (shoulder + head) at 300 yards while knelling
Sillouette at 500 yards while in the prone position.

The reason I want an AR is to learn how to shoot irons out to extended ranges and to learn how to clean, and disassemble the rifle under 5 minutes. All of this is so I be more knowledge when it comes to learn.
 
I would suggest spending that time doing lots of pullups, running, and crunches so that you can have a good pft score if you are serious about it. They will teach you all the markmanship fundamentals
 
I went with a 16" barrel on mine. I can hit a steel plate everytrime at 300 yards. If I was planning on doing serious target shooting I'd go with the 20".
 
If you are wanting to shoot out to extended distances, you will pribably need that 20" bbl, but a 16" WILL work. My AR has a 18" on it, but those are kinda hard to find, espically on cheaper ARs....
 
Glad to hear you want to try to be one of the few and proud. Here is some advice from a Marine who is in the desert as we speak. If you buy a rifle get a standard M16A2 (civilian equivalent) from DPMS, Bushmaster, Del-ton, etc. Get it stock (plain, no bells and whistles). you can always dress it up later, that is what's great about AR's, and it's half the fun. Next, get a Marine or NRA instructor to teach you how to shoot. this will keep you from developing bad habits that others have mentioned. Also, all of my guys qualed using our 4x ACOG's, NOT iron sights, right before we deployed. There is a change now for the rifle qualification that you do not have to use iron sights, it's BS if you ask me, but whatever. Lastly, don't stress the rifle qual. The coaches will teach you how to shoot and there are guys that have never touched a rifle that get expert all the time.

As someone else said, i would focus on getting in the best possible physical and mental shape over anything else. trust me, it will make your life easier when you get it.

semper fi.
 
Well physically i'm working on it, my weightlifting coach is killin' us right now to get prepared for the upcoming football season, thanks for the tip anyways, I do need to work on them darn pull ups.

But while watching Saving Private Ryan on TNT, I thought to my self, what's affordable, battle proven, in an accual deer caliber, and showed up a bunch of Germans in WW1 at Beallu Wood, well that my friends would be a 1903 Springfield. I know it's radical compared to a $800 AR shooting a little varmit caliber (not hatin' just an observation).

But really a 1903 has good sights, formitable caliber, more reliable for killing deer without a perfect shot. It's also a LOT cheaper, and not brand ammunition picky (sorry that's just what I've heard about ARs). The only thing an AR has on a 1903 is rate of fire, and the coolness. But I belive a deer dosent care about their lungs getting puncture by a cool rifle or a classic rifle they just know they've been shot. And deer have a lot less immunity to a 30-06 than a .223 (unless it's a headshot, but when I see a deer I probally will be to excited to make a perfect shot).

But what do y'all think about this, and where could I find a good one if I desided on an 03'.
 
Know I'm 15 and by training I ment learning to shoot with iron sights at extended ranges, like they do in baisic training.

Circle at 200 yards standing up
A2 sillouette (shoulder + head) at 300 yards while knelling
Sillouette at 500 yards while in the prone position.

The reason I want an AR is to learn how to shoot irons out to extended ranges and to learn how to clean, and disassemble the rifle under 5 minutes. All of this is so I be more knowledge when it comes to learn.
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What you speak of is a basic A2 Service rifle. Just like the one you will most likely get handed when you get in the Marines. A nice HighPower A2 20" rifle is exactly what you speak of. I don't think you will be training with a 16" loaded with flashlights and such. I could be wrong though.

And deer have a lot less immunity to a 30-06 than a .223 (unless it's a headshot,
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This sounds more like campfire talk than actual experiences.
 
for my next one i want a standard 20" a2 preferbly in the 6.5 grendel but i don't think they make them.
 
Sorry about the 30-06 vs. .223.

I just belive many more people have killed more deer with a 30-06 than a .223. But that's also just my belief. And I like the appeal of an American 30-06, but the .223 is like a 2nd generation "American round".

Not arguing against any of these two cartiges.:)

Your right about the A2 service rifle, last time I saw the "Making Marines: Paris Island" they didn't have all the gizmos on their rifles.

What's more reliable an A2 standard rifle or an A3 with a match detachable carry handle. I'm leaning towards an A3 confg. because of a bit more modularity out of the box for an ACOG sight possibly later down the road.

Thanks again for all the advice.:)
 
What's more reliable an A2 standard rifle or an A3 with a match detachable carry handle. I'm leaning towards an A3 confg. because of a bit more modularity out of the box for an ACOG sight possibly later down the road.
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Neither is more "reliable" really, just one has better modularity.
 
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What's more reliable an A2 standard rifle or an A3 with a match detachable carry handle. I'm leaning towards an A3 confg. because of a bit more modularity out of the box for an ACOG sight possibly later down the road.
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Neither is more "reliable" really, just one has better modularity.
 
P.B.Walsh, the only differences are the A3 has the ability to scope the reciever at a lower height. The A2 sighted carry handle is just as accurate as the standard A2, but there is a limitation of a carry handle. The A2 sighted carry handle has measurements of 3/6 where as the A2 fixed "service rifle" has 2/8 regarding elevation.
So in some senarios depending on temperature, humidity, bullet weight, velocity, ballistic coefficient you might run out of elevation when shooting at longer distances.

I have not run into this with my Colt HBAR. A tip would be that if going for the carry handle A3 20" rifle. You might want to check out Rock River Uppers. They have an A3 upper with a carry handle that has more elevation.

That is the differences you will run into. One is no more reliable than the other, but there are differences.
 
Wow thanks for the info I think I'll go with a Del-Ton A3 upper or either sees I it's cheaper to build my own with a lower and a septate upper if it's cheaper. But Del-Ton is about $750 on their internet. And to me that's very affordable with a RRA carry handle for about $120.

Thanks again for all of the information see y'all on another thread.:)
 
Out of my last 5 AR's I'd go 16"

I've had 5 AR's,one 24" bull, two 16" CAR (1 M4, 1 HBAR), and two 20" standard rifles. The best overall were the CAR type, with the HBAR being the most accurate (it was a kit rifle from J&T/Doublestar on a DPMS lower), and the cheapest. Easy to shoot offhand, and compact enough to carry easily.
 
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