168g Berger VLD Hunting bullets

[Nature Boy]

I intend to hunt west Texas whitetail with these in a .30-06 and have worked up a very accurate load for them. I'm getting 2,670fps and a 1.25 MOA 10 shot group at 200 yards (my zero distance).

I've read a lot of anecdotal stories on the web about their performance and they seem to be very polarized. They're either great or they suck. One thing that seems to be consistent is they create a lot of damage. Even several nay sayers who don't care for them admit that they killed their intended target with extreme prejudice. The description often used is "grenade". The perceived fragility of the bullet seems to lead to concerns that the bullet would hit bone, "explode" and not penetrate

I was at the range yesterday and did some shooting at 500 yards. We hung a 1/4" piece of steel and I took the first crack at it. Here's what it did.



So, if the Berger 168 VLD hunting bullet punches through steel at 500 yards, it should have no issues punching through meat and bone, right?

 

[LoonWulf]

Nope no issue at all. The only bad part about the bergers is how destructive they are (and the cost). Ive used them from my .300, 30-06, .243, and 7 rem mag.
Keep your shots out of anything you want to eat and youll have good performance.

Thats quite a bit slower than ive.ever launched them but im confident that they will perform as advertised.

The kicker? I dont shoot them anymore. Not because i dont like them, but because ive found amax to perform the same way for less cost.

 

[Nature Boy]

I hear you on the cost. I bought 500 of these VLD hunting bullets on sale for $0.35 ea. That was significantly less than the Nosler BTs I was using. Those pills are expensive!

 

[LoonWulf]

Nice grab, at that price they are an exceptional buy!

 

[jmr40]

They are not designed to penetrate through lots of bone or muscle. If you plan on shooting an elk in the butt and expect enough penetration to reach vitals you'll not be pleased. That is what they make Nosler Partitions and Barnes TTSX's for. Many softer bullets such as Hornady SST's or Nosler Ballistic Tips will start to expamd on contact and at times not give adequate penetration even on broadside shots to the lungs. The Bergers penetrate 3-4" before expanding, or exploding may be a better term. They get deep enough penetration to reach vitals before coming apart. At least as long as you don't try to take shots at bad angles. You read of the occasional bullet failure where they don't expand at all and behave like a FMJ. It appears that this may have been more of an issue with early production.

Virtually all bullets behave just as designed, true bullet failure is extremely rare. But hunters often ask bullets to do a job they weren't designed for and blame it on the bullet. As long as you understand the bullets design and use it the way it is intended they all usually work.

 

[horsey300]

I intend to hunt west Texas whitetail with these in a .30-06 and have worked up a very accurate load for them. I'm getting 2,670fps and a 1.25 MOA 10 shot group at 200 yards (my zero distance).
I've read a lot of anecdotal stories on the web about their performance and they seem to be very polarized. They're either great or they suck. One thing that seems to be consistent is they create a lot of damage. Even several nay sayers who don't care for them admit that they killed their intended target with extreme prejudice. The description often used is "grenade". The perceived fragility of the bullet seems to lead to concerns that the bullet would hit bone, "explode" and not penetrate

I was at the range yesterday and did some shooting at 500 yards. We hung a 1/4" piece of steel and I took the first crack at it. Here's what it did.



So, if the Berger 168 VLD hunting bullet punches through steel at 500 yards, it should have no issues punching through meat and bone, right?

Punching through steel at 500 yds is a slower impact velocity, in my experience, penetration at even 350 yds will not demonstrate the frangible qualities that shots at 50-150 yds will yield. Maybe test your loads at closer distances just in case, for example 90-95 gr ballistic tips (as printed by nosler and vouched for by personal experience) out of my .243 at 50 yds splode and splash but out past 100, they're beautiful. Even factory powershok grenades to pieces at close range. It's either a tough bullet up close that will punch through, or a softer bullet farther away......or a partition to do it all. I honestly don't have experience with a vld on game yet but if I heard rumors of grenades, I'd test em on a few materials at different impact velocities to be safe.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You know, Berger VLD-Hunting is one of the most tissue-destructive bullets on hogs that I have found for my Grendel. They tend to penetrate very well and destroy a tremendous amount of tissue around the point of impact and along the wound channel. I found the VLD-Hunting to be a great killing round, but not a great round for meat. Expect that if you shoot a deer through the shoulder that the shoulder meat will be ruined and if the bullet overpenetrates to the other shoulder that the other shoulder meat will be ruined.

 

[Grumulkin]

What I've learned here:

1. If you wish to shoot an Elk in the butt or from a bad angle, use a Barnes TTSX or Nosler partition.

2. Berger bullets might overpenetrate.

3. Berger bullets aren't designed to go through a lot of bone and muscle (i.e., they might underpenetrate).

I shot 4 Pronghorn Antelope with Berger VLDs (168 grain out of a 300 Weatherby Magnum) before there was a distinction made between hunting and target VLDs. I believe they all "overpenetrated" but not much edible meat was ruined because I didn't hit them in a leg. I used the same gun/bullets on a couple of nuisance permit deer; also effective.

Then there was a shot I took at a deer going away using a 25/06 loaded with a Berger 115 grain hunting VLD. It hit the back of a rear leg (i.e., the butt) and still killed it.

 

[H&Hhunter]

You know, Berger VLD-Hunting is one of the most tissue-destructive bullets on hogs that I have found for my Grendel. They tend to penetrate very well and destroy a tremendous amount of tissue around the point of impact and along the wound channel. I found the VLD-Hunting to be a great killing round, but not a great round for meat. Expect that if you shoot a deer through the shoulder that the shoulder meat will be ruined and if the bullet overpenetrates to the other shoulder that the other shoulder meat will be ruined.

From your video the Bergers seem to be a bit inconsistent. I wonder how they do at high velocity? 2400 FPS with a 130 gr 6.5 bullet is hardly an indication of the bullets construction and abilities.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

On the recovered, necropsied hogs, the damage was very consistent - big wounds and plenty of penetration.

 

[Nature Boy]

For those that don't wander into the reloading section very often, you can see my load development journey here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/30-06-hunting-load-development.812298/

I settled on the Berger strictly based on how accurate it was. I've ruled out the Barnes and Hornady GMX because of how inaccurate they were (or my inability to find the right load).

My most accurate load for this rifle was with 125g Nosler BTs, but I decided to pick 150g or heavier.

Any reason not to stick with the Bergers?

 

[LoonWulf]

Again keep them out of the eaty bits and not alot of issues. Yes i consider the butt an eaty bit, dont shoot it.

My 7mm will drive the 168s to 3100. I've shot goats, sheep, and deer at under 50yds, and my closest pig was about 150. Bullets performed as advertised, including punching thru the onside shoulder on the pig. Both fronts and a chunk of the strap were ruined on the pig.

Maybe just because they are so pointy, i dont know, but they seem to do pretty much the same thing for the first 6 or so inches over a very wide velocity spectrum.

Oh longest shot was with my .243 and 95grns on a deer at a little over 400yds, bullet made jello of the heart and lungs but didnt exit.

 

[Nature Boy]

You lose 100% of the meat if you shoot one and can't find it. Losing a package or two of breakfast sausage because I blew out the shoulder is not that big of a deal. I can always shoot a doe to make up the difference.

I always bring back up. A second rifle (this year it will be my .358 BLR) and I'll also bring some Nosler 165 BTs just in case I'm not happy with the Bergers

 

[H&Hhunter]

I might have to give the VLD hunting bullet try one of these days. I've had such good luck with Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accubonds of recent that I've been reluctant to move to anything else. If it works...

 

[LoonWulf]

Agreed, Ive shot the accubonds and they "work", no muss no fuss. I still havent tried the barnes bullets.

This thread had me clicking the buy button on some of the vld 130s for my 6.5s....im almost out of amaxs anyway.....

 

[Glockula]

I worked up a load mm in my .308 using Berger VLD 168s. Is is still the most accurate load in my Savage 11. I killed an 8 point and a doe that I recovered and shot a huge 8 point and another doe that got up and ran off with no blood trail. There was a pool of blood where the doe hit and no blood after. I was sick about the buck. Behind the front shoulder and no blood at all. The issue here is failed expansion. Make sure the hollow points are not corroded or blocked as I believe this can make them pencil through. I have had them act like an fmj 3 out of five shots. I will never use them on game again due to unreliable expansion. These are the VLD Hunting projectiles.

 

[Nature Boy]

Interestingly, I stopped at the range this morning on the way to work at struck up a conversation with a guy I see there often who used VLD Hunting bullets for the first time this year and had similar results as you describe. 4 deer shot, one was a neck shot that was DRT, 3 others were shoulder hits that ran. All recovered but very little blood or damage.

 

[LoonWulf]

I havent gotten to try the ones i just got yet....they dont LOOK any different than the older ones i still have. I wonder whats up. Were all the animals shot with .30s?

 

[Coltdriver]

I shot an elk with a 130 grain Berger VLD from a 270 WSM. The round was only going at about 3150 fps because that was an extremely accurate round from my rifle. I took a classic heart lung shot. The internal destruction was impressive and I would definitely agree with the grenade analogy. There were only tiny pieces of jacket found and we never found any lead. There were a couple of places where you could see the lead spatter on a far side rib. Nothing came out the other side.

As long as you are taking a shot where the bullet works best I think they are excellent. That is a classic heart lung shot. I have been able to work up very accurate loads with them and that is why I like them, I never take a rushed or running shot and I always know where they are going to hit.

 

[Glockula]

Yes I shot them all with .30 cal 168s. I am running 43.5 gr of IMR 4064 in a Nosler.308 win case.

 

[Grumulkin]

Yes I shot them all with .30 cal 168s. I am running 43.5 gr of IMR 4064 in a Nosler.308 win case.

It looks like we happened on a similar load.