18 1/2 lb recoil spring? Springfield 5" 1911

[1911 guy]

OK, I'm a dedicated user of the pistol but not by any stretch a gunsmith. I have a pistol that started life as a Springfield G.I. It was worked over by an actual gunsmith to replace all the internals with Ed Brown and Wilson parts. It has run great with the stock 16 lb. recoil spring for better than six years, with the occasional spring swap. I usually swap them at 2,000 rounds. Hammer spring at every other recoil spring swap. No I.L.S., has a S&A MSH installed.

Last range trip I was shooting this pistol, which is also in rotation as a CCW. Less than 1,000 rounds since last spring swap. Had several failures to return to battery. Always went back into battery when slingshotting the slide during the malfunction drill.

Dropped in a Wolff 18 1/2 lb spring for another pistol and it ran like a champ.

Two questions: What are some possible causes of this and is there a reason not to run the 18 1/2 spring all the time?

 

[Drail]

A 16 lb. spring should be able to strip a round, chamber it and place the slide fully in battery. (if it is really a 16 lb. spring - some springs will weaken much faster than others) If the gun won't go into battery fully with a new 16 lb. spring then look at extractor tension and how smoothly the surfaces of the extractor hook are and the radius (or lack of) on the corners of the hook. Check for any burrs on the breech face around the firing pin hole. If you have a pinned ejector check to see that the pin is not walking out and putting drag on the slide's rails and the top of the ejector is not rubbing the slide. When most people use a 18.5 lb. spring it will cover up a number of problems and it is unnecessary - the extra force when the slide goes forward will beat the lugs more than normal and also cause the muzzle to dip more in recoil. A heavier recoil spring can also cause the slide to close so fast that a less than perfect magazine spring may not get a round up in time. The mainspring under the hammer should not need to be replaced - I have yet to see one become weak and cause any problems unless it was cut down by someone.

 

[1911Tuner]

If it's a recent Springfield, check the extractor deflection...or the amount of the wall behind the claw that shows in the breech area.

Lately I've noticed that a good many have had too much deflection, and that can surely cause or contribute to failures to go to or return to battery.

Pictured below is an example of excessive deflection. In this instance, there's about twice as much as there should be for best reliability.

 

[1911Tuner]

 

[jad0110]

Springs can even be defective or packaged incorrectly from the manufacturer. I had the happen with a Wolff mainspring for my 1911. Should have been 16 lbs, but I had problems with it from the moment I installed it. Used a friend's tension gauge and found it had only 11 lbs of force. Makes me want to get my own spring gauge so I can check them before installation.

 

[1911 guy]

The extractor is a Wilson Bulletproof, installed and set up by the smith that worked on the gun. The springs are always Wolff. I did notice that jad0110 mentioned a mis-marked spring from them. I'll look at the extractor. With enough rounds, it may need tweaked just a bit.

 

[1911Tuner]

I had the happen with a Wolff mainspring for my 1911. Should have been 16 lbs, but I had problems with it from the moment I installed it. Used a friend's tension gauge and found it had only 11 lbs of force.

Mainspring or recoil spring?

The mainspring is in the butt. The recoil spring is under the barrel.

And...did you test it at its installed length or its compressed length with the slide at full rearward travel?

At the installed length...with the slide in battery...a 16-pound recoil spring typically tests at around 8.5-9 pounds of static preload once it takes a set...and around 15 pounds at full slide travel.

 

[RainDodger]

I just had a similar problem with a 4" Sig 1911. My 'smith dressed the extractor and radiused the corner of it a tiny little bit which fixed 98% of the problem. He suggested I put in a recoil spring 2# heavier than factory. Also, make sure your breech face is perfectly smooth with no gunk stuck on it, and no gunk under the extractor hook.

 

[g.willikers]

1911 guy,
Just gotta' ask,
Why are the springs being changed so often?
Especially the hammer/mainspring.
Like Drail sez, there rarely seems to be a need to replace it.
Seem like a good quality recoil spring can go a lot longer, too.
Kind of reminds me of guys who change their engine oil every couple of thousand miles.
Mostly of benefit to the folks selling it, unless actual circumstances require it.

Speaking of recoil spring rates, one day at a match this very conversation let to some spring swap tests.
On my old clunk there didn't seem to be any difference with 14, 16 or 18 lb versions.
The pistol seemed the same to me with any of them.
The custom pistols present, especially the race guns, seemed to have the most noticeable changes relative to spring rates, though.
Even then, it was more about feel and how fast they could be shot, rather than operation or reliability concerns.
Even with some surprisingly light ones.

 

[Red Cent]

Any reaction/recoil spring heavier than factory is a symptom cover up and not a solution.

 

[jad0110]

Tuner,

Recoil spring, sorry, more of a revolver guy .

We tested the spring both ways ... the highest the scale ever went was 11 lbs on that particular spring. I tested all the other springs in my parts kit and they were all fine (16 lbs compressed, around 9 static pre-load IIRC).

 

[moxie]

Could be simply that that particular spring died prematurely.

 

[1911Tuner]

We tested the spring both ways ... the highest the scale ever went was 11 lbs on that particular spring.

Sounds like a reduced power number found its way into the wrong package.

If you still have it...and you've got a caliper...measure the wire diameter. Wolff's GM 16-pound spring wire is .044 inch.

 

[1911 guy]

Quote:
Why are the springs being changed so often?
Especially the hammer/mainspring.

Because it was three in the morning and I meant to say firing pin return spring, not mainspring. Mea Culpa.

 

[jad0110]

I'm thinking Tuner is right (packaging error), b/c the malfunctions started immediately when I put the new spring in. Which is why in a self defense gun it is probably good practice to change the spring just before your range session to test it, not after like when you are cleaning.

That spring is long gone, I didn't want it to wind up in my good pile.

 

[dakota1911]

Any auto is sort of "a dance of the springs". If you are having problems with a 16lb spring in a 5 inch 1911 (45ACP) and then throw in an 18.5lb recoil spring and it works then you may want to dig deeper and find out why it is not working with the 16 lb recoil spring.

 

[HisSoldier]

I just bought a used SA 38 Super, it was heavily modified, I guess as a race gun though I don't know much about competition shooting. Anyway, the recoil spring was so light that holding the gun pointed at the ceiling would drop the slide out of battery.

I thought of something I read by 1911Tuner about recoil springs only being to return the slide to battery, so I've wondered about this since buying the gun two weeks ago. With the gun he gave me several hundred rounds of his reloads, I haven't shot through a Chronograph yet, but I wonder if I'll find surprises in that ammo that would explain the shortened return spring.

BTW, the gun is back almost to original now, and a very nice Super it is. I'll load 130 grain to 1200 FPS I think.

 

[1911Tuner]

Anyway, the recoil spring was so light that holding the gun pointed at the ceiling would drop the slide out of battery

That's a little light. The spring should place the slide in battery and hold it there...regardless of which direction the gun is pointed.