1858 loading gate conversion

[cowboywitek]

I am looking for an 1858 conversion cylinder with a loading gate and 6 round capacity. I have only seen the 6 shot drop ins, but why are there no 6 shot cylinders with a loading gate? some say its an issue with the diameter of the cylinder to hold 6 shots. but if the drop ins can hold 6 shots why cant the one with the loading gates hold 6 shots? thanks for anyones help.

 

[rcflint]

The Kirst drop-in is a 5-shot with a blank position as a safe spot. This cylinder has parallel chambers and the spacing has been increased between the 5 to allow the rims to fit in the circle, the angle is not 60 degrees between chambers.

The R&D cylinder has 6 chambers which are at about 1/2 degree angle allowing the rims to fit in the circle at the rear of the cylinder.

No-one has made a gate fed conversion with angled chambers, but it could be done given an R&D cylinder as a basis with a new gated backplate with a single firing pin . I might try designing one......

The "factory" conversions have a larger frame and cylinder to allow 6 shots. The original Remington conversion in the 19th century was a 5-shot.

 

[ClemBert]

As I posted on TFL:

The gated 1858 cylinders are only made by Kirst. The six shot cylinder for the 1858 is patent protected by R&D because of the method used (angled chambers). Therefore Kirst would have to negotiate a deal with R&D to use their patent. The cylinder on a 1858 just doesn't have the diameter needed to straight bore all six chambers through for 45 Colt cartridges.

The answer you seek is most likely that it can be done. It's just that R&D doesn't make a gated 1858 cylinder. Perhaps Kirst owns the patent on the rear gated ring that is needed to implement what you want. Thus, Kirst and R&D both hold (speculating) patents needed for your 6 shot gated conversion cylinder. Can anyone confirm any patent that Kirst has on the gated rear ring?

 

[arcticap]

I didn't search for a Kirst patent, but out of curiousity I looked up the Richards and Richards-Mason Conversion patent instead which started the conversion ball rolling for Colt. And now there's even a Richards-Mason II Conversion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=SY...=onepage&q=richards conversion patent&f=false

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_53/ai_n27260175/

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/60-R-MConvOpener.htm

Some of the conversion parts can be seen in the intricate wood models:

http://www.classic-arms.com/colt/assets/Conversion 1871.pdf

 

[scrat]

this has been answered before im not going to get into all the technical terms but in short here it is.

the kirst cylinder is timed correctly to fire 5 shots as each chamber is pointing straight to the barrel correctly aligned.

The R&D cylinder uses 6 shot but the cylinder is too small so the chambers are actually angled and the bullets enter the forcing cone at an angle. R&D claims this has no effect on accuracy. alot of people concur this

I however have the Kirst and love it.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Hiya Scrat good seein' ya, rest assured the ROA, and Rogers&Spencer .45Colt sixshot R&D dropins work real fine. Under R&D's new Co. Name they make a gated 5 shot R&D chambers aren't a 1/2 minute of angle...straight.
I love my Kirst/Pietta 38spl gated Konvertor in my '61 Navy 5 1/2" bbl. ;O)

 

[oneiron]

I though that 19th century gunsmiths drilled through the black powder chamber, milled out a recess for the rim of the cartridge, and added the firing pin. To reload you changed two a fully loaded cylinders.

 

[scrat]

there were several different methods of converting a percussion gun to a cartridge gun. Milling the back end was just one method. This method though often required the hammer to be modified so that you would loose the notches in the back. The richard mason conversion was the best that was designed and used the most. Later on this is where Colt came out with its famous peace maker which was pretty much developed on the ways of cartridge conversions. here is a Kirst conversion cylinder with loading gate. typical of its type based on the richard mason design

 

[rcflint]

Whether a 19th Century gunsmith could cut off the rear of a cylinder and chamber a cartridge depended on the gun and the cylinder dimensions. In the case of the Remington 44 cal NMA, the chambers are too close together to fit the rims in with a 45 caliber case (the bore is 45). Remington factory conversions were 5-shot 46 caliber rim fire revolvers and came boxed with a 6-shot percussion cylinder as well.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Kirst has made and still can make 6 shot 44 cylinders for the Remington.
Both in 45 ACP and 44 Colt.
In order to accurately shoot the 44 Colt you need to use Heel Base or Hollow Base bullets.

Many of the "Armoury" converted remingtons were converted in 44 Colt, 44 Martin, and even in 44 American.

I have a number of 6 shot Kirst conversions and love them!

 

[BHP FAN]

I just got my Remmie back from Kenny Howell....it's not gated, but it'll do!
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/hut-man/Rem44.jpg

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Hard to believe ya without Pictures!

 

[BHP FAN]

 

[Hoof Hearted]

OK......
An R&D drop in........
I thought you had him do a conversion on your pistol (they just fitted a cylinder)

Here is a picture of a full conversion that happened to escape his facility........



This one is a "Navy" conversion on a Uberti New Model Army in 5 shot 45 Colt

 

[BHP FAN]

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Pietta with an eraly Kirst ported conversion (was it a non-ported that you ported?) and an ealry Kirst drop in ejector, Right?

 

[BHP FAN]

Exactly! My, you are good!

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Exactly! My, you are good!

Thanks!
I have oodles of conversions..............

Now tell me about the front sight

 

[BHP FAN]

I's actually driftable [installed by a gunsmith buddy of mine] but I filed a bit much off the front sight trying to set it for POA/POI.