1858 Remington Cylinder not Properly Indexed

[Norton Commando]

Calling on the collective brain here: Can I fix an 1858 Remington by Armi San Paolo that has a cylinder indexing problem? The cylinder over rotates slightly such that I can see a sliver of the cylinder when looking down the barrel with a flash light.

Any ideas on how I can fix this problem?

Thanks!

Jason

 

[AlexanderA]

You could try a slightly shorter hand. Uberti hands will interchange with Armi San Paolo (Euroarms) hands. A small amount of fitting may be required.

 

[44 Dave]

Is it over rotated with the bolt locked in?

 

[Norton Commando]

Yes, it is over rotated with the bolt engaged in the slot in the cylinder.

 

[Mizar]

I see that 45Dragoon already answered you in the 1858 Remington forum, but here are some things you can check to see if you have an ill fitting, or worn bolt, or if the cylinder indexing notches are miscut:
Check barrel to cylinder alignment - does you cylinder indexes in the same matter for every chamber, or just one or two are out of alignment? You must help the cylinder by pushing it all the way counterclockwise looking from the muzzle end. If yes to the last, then go no further - cylinder indexing notches are miscut. If only one chamber is misbehaving, you can claim it a safety position and use the revolver as a 5 shooter, but if more are problematic, then a new cylinder should be fitted.
With locked cylinder, turn it all the way until full stop clockwise and counterclockwise. Does it align at some point? If yes, than how big is the play?
Check bolt play in the frame with fully raised bolt - how much play it has?
Check bolt head fitment in the cylinder indexing notches - again, how much play?
If you have a worn out bolt, or all of the indexing notches are miscut the same way (depending on the level of misalignment), a new oversized bolt can be fitted and with careful filling of either left, or right side of it's head the cylinder can be brought back to proper indexing.

 

[Norton Commando]

Hi Mizar and thank you for your post. I'll perform your suggested checks when I get home later today and report my findings.

Jason

 

[Norton Commando]

Mizar, following are your questions followed by my answers to them:

Q: Does the cylinder index the same for each chamber?
A: Yes, exactly the same for each.

Q: Does turning the locked cylinder back and forth bring the cylinder into alignment at some point?
A: No, the misalignment is minimized a tiny bit by rotating the cylinder counter-clockwise when viewed from the muzzle, but the misalignment is still there.

Q: What is the bolt play in the frame?
A: The bolt-to-frame clearance is very close, 0.001" - 0.0015" maximum. I've loaded some pics in an effort to show the relationship between bolt and frame, but I don't think I was successful.

Q: What is the bolt fitment like relative to the cylinder?
A: The width of the bolt slot in the cylinder is 0.158", but I can't measure the bolt without disassembling the frame, which I will do if you think it's necessary at this point. But I can say that the play between bolt and cylinder slot is very very slight.

Best,

Jason

 

[Mizar]

A: No, the misalignment is minimized a tiny bit by rotating the cylinder counter-clockwise when viewed from the muzzle, but the misalignment is still there.

But if your cylinder over rotates as you stated and you see it on the right looking thru the barrel, then you must rotate it clockwise to minimize misalignment? Like already suggested on the other forum - new oversized bolt should be fitted. First you widen the frame slot from the desired side (In your case it must be from the right side, facing the muzzle away from you) so it can fit the new bolt width and then you fit the bolt head (mainly from the left, but depends on the level of misalignment) so it can engage the locking notches and index properly.

 

[Norton Commando]

Mizar, thank you. That's the way I see it too. Simply installing a larger bolt will not work without opening the slot in the frame.I assume modifying the frame can be done with a small "jeweler" file?

Where I was getting confused was when folks would talk about installing a larger bolt but not say squat about opening up the slot in the frame. I guess I should have known that filing the frame is implied with the suggestion of a larger bolt.

Do you know where I can buy a larger bolt? The Armi San Paolo as you know is no longer being made. Some folks say that Uberti is a suitable replacement?

Best,

Jason

 

[Mizar]

Sorry Jason, but as I live outside the US I cannot recommend you a specific vendor - your best bet is to PM 45 Dragoon with that question, or send the gun directly to him: http://www.goonsgunworks.com/contact/

 

[Norton Commando]

Ok thank you for all your help!