1882 Trapdoor Info Please

[easternagt]

Just bought a Model 1873 Springfield Trapdoor in marvelous condition, but it's a bit on the odd side. Serial number 1933xx, so I know it's 1882 production, stock cartouche matches (1882). However, it's a 32" barrel on a carbine stock that has had the saddle ring fittings removed. Rear sight is a buckhorn. Looks like an elegant sporting rifle. Just wondered if anyone knows whether or not Springfield ever produced a rifle like this, or did somebody do a conversion.

 

[deadin]

Sounds like a bubba'ed rifle. Got any pictures??

The only "sporting rifle" Springfield made was the M1875 Officers Model and yours doesn't fit the description.

 

[Iggy]

Meacham and Shuyler,Hartley, and Graham did some sporterizing on TD and Sharps rifles. Meacham used more surplus stuff than SH&G. Might be a starting place.

Here's one I did.


Inspiration for this one was a Meacham conversion with a Sharps octagonal barrel in the WY State Museum.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd need to see pics but it sounds like a sporterized rifle for sure.

Buckhorns were never standard on trapdoor that I know of. Springfields 'real' sporters were made in small batches (like 100 or less total) from M68 and M69 rifles. However, lots of 'smiths did alterations for buffalo hunting.

We'd need to see pics to judge the quality of the work, and whether or not it's 'period'.

 

[easternagt]

Photos of my mystery rifle

Doing this by trial & error, so hope the pics come through. Maybe I used the wrong term for the rear sight.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yup. Agree with the OP description.
Looks like a rifle set in a carbine stock without even sawing the barrel off.
Probably a very early sporterization by Bubba's Great Grandpa back when parts like the carbine stock were readily available. Not an Army variation.
That is the sight commonly called a "buckhorn" in contrast with the later windage adjustable Buffington rear sight.

There was a guy at the BPCR match last week with a homemade Gemmer Trapdoor.
Said he had an old trapdoor action and a Hawken style stock laying around, so he built a gun out of them, an octagon barrel and MVA sights the only new parts. It shot as well as you might expect. The only drawback I saw was the need of a flexible cleaning rod to wipe from the breech. But then a lot of the Sharps and other period style rifle shooters are using those, too.

 

[Iggy]

Don't see any evidence of a sling swivel bar on the stock, leading me to think it is a cut down rifle stock. Is there a hole in the front of the stock where a ram rod would have been carried?

 

[Iggy]

That looks like the standard1879 military rear sight. It was used until replaced by the Buffington sight in 1884.

 

[deadin]

I'm with Iggy....

 

[easternagt]

Trapdoor

Yes, there is a hole for the rod in the stock. Well, i bought it for a shooter, not an investment, so I'm content to know what I've got and just enjoy it. The fella I got it from said his dad had it for years and the trail ends there. I really do appreciate everyone's consideration, information, and candor.

 

[Iggy]

My Granddad had an old TD in the corner of the kitchen back in the 40's. Yeh I'm that old. He got it when he was preparing to move west from MO to WY. He didn't like guns, but everyone told him he needed one if he was homesteading in WY. He said he never fired the TD. He used a .22 for anything that needed shot.

He left the old homestead and moved to town in 1947. By the time I was old enough to wonder about the old gun and ask him about it. He had given it to a neighbor when they moved . The neighbor had gone too by the time I became interested.

He told me he ordered it out of a catalog back about 1903 and had paid $7.00 for it and 50 rounds of ammunition. He said it came from some place in NY. I would bet the farm it was from Bannerman's. They sold many many Civil War firearms back then. They claimed they could outfit an army if need be.
I use to have an old Bannermans Catalog and I can believe it.

 

[Jim Watson]

That looks like the standard1879 military rear sight.

Does to me, too.
But is is commonly CALLED "the buckhorn" even though it is not just like a sporting buckhorn sight. If the term is good enough for Norm Flayderman, it is good enough for me.

 

[Iggy]

The rear sight should have a "B" on the left side. That designates the Battle sight, and is set at 265 yards.
With standard 45-70-500 rounds, the theory was if your enemy was close, you aimed at his belt buckle and the round would strike some where between his shoulders and waist.
If he was a long ways out there, you could aim at his head and the round would hit between there and his waist.

Haven't tested that theory out.

 

[easternagt]

TD

Well guys, I reckon that I've got what I've got. The metal looks really good, with just a fleck or two, and I'm gonna really enjoy blasting away with it.I checked for the letter "B" on the left side of the rear sight and discovered that mine has the letter "R" stamped there. Que Paso? The two "screws" attaching the sight to the rifle have no slots and look more like round head rivets.

 

[BHP FAN]

''R'' is for ''rifle'' as opposed to ''C'' for carbine. because the carbine had a shorter barrel, and a lighter load [55 gr. of powder] it required sights regulated for the carbine load and barrel legnth for any hope of accuracy.

 

[Dr.Rob]

It's an interesting old piece for sure.

(I enver would have called that a buckhorn, but you learn something new everyday!)

 

[StrawHat]

For more information check this site.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

For parts and etc, check this one.

http://www.trapdoors.com/

I have just recieved a Model 1873 to go with my bastard 1866. Reloading with black powder is the way to get the authentic feel of the piece. Info can be found here.

http://www.the45-70book.com/pat

Good luck and enjoy your Trapdoor.

 

[easternagt]

Took it out on Thanksgiving Day and put 50 rounds through it. Only had 50 yards to play in and was using 29 grains of H4198 with 300 grain LFP's. Grouped 2 holes touching, third was an inch out. Problem is that it shoots about 3 inches to the right. With front & rear sights pinned, I wonder if anyone out there has a simple solution to the windage problem, other than Kentucky style? Of course, it shot about 9 inches high. Wow, does it tear stuff up! My brother and I destroyed some steel flipper & spinners that he'd welded up. Does a job on bowling pins too. A hoot to shoot. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

 

[easternagt]

Eureka

Gentlemen, I beg your indulgence. After a more careful inspection of the 1874 rear sight, I realized the darned thing could be adjusted for windage. Mine was "out of the notch" slightly to the right. Problem solved. Now to work on that little "elevation" issue.