mljdeckard
Member
No. It is A way to carry a 1911. It is not THE way.
1911 - Am I the only one who doesn't like oversized beavertail safeties?
- Thread starter WardenWolf
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Skylerbone
Member
Here's one possibility for a smallish one: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=41046/Product/1911-AUTO-BULLET-PROOF-CONCEALMENT-GRIP-SAFETY-HAMMER. You can also modify one or have your local gs modify your GS. This one probably didn't start life as a beavertail but has been shaped for a commander style hammer, post #12: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=372617.
You could always opt for a new ignition set with a spur and, if like me you have suffered hammer bite, choose a modified (bobbed) version that will work with a GI style or beavertail as offered by Harrison Custom: http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/category/56-ignition-sets-parts.aspx?pageindex=2.
For the love of Pete I wish people would stop with inferrences toward owners' short-comings, need of tacticool accessories, etc. JMB built around govt. requirements which is not to say the 1911 as originally delivered fit every soldier like a glove. Modifying parts or carry method to suit an individual does have merit whether it is recognized by everyone or not. Weigh the benefit, determine any shortcomings (yes, it may not be as easily cocked from horseback, which does still matter to many) and check it for safe function. In other words, know the consequences of what you are considering.
You could always opt for a new ignition set with a spur and, if like me you have suffered hammer bite, choose a modified (bobbed) version that will work with a GI style or beavertail as offered by Harrison Custom: http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/category/56-ignition-sets-parts.aspx?pageindex=2.
For the love of Pete I wish people would stop with inferrences toward owners' short-comings, need of tacticool accessories, etc. JMB built around govt. requirements which is not to say the 1911 as originally delivered fit every soldier like a glove. Modifying parts or carry method to suit an individual does have merit whether it is recognized by everyone or not. Weigh the benefit, determine any shortcomings (yes, it may not be as easily cocked from horseback, which does still matter to many) and check it for safe function. In other words, know the consequences of what you are considering.
WardenWolf
member
Keep in mind that, when the 1911 was introduced, people on average were shorter and had smaller hands. My grandfather was born in 1920 and was 6 feet tall. He was considered tall in his time and had large hands (equivalent to glove size XL today). There's a reason, though, that it's called size XL. There was a time when "Medium" was the average hand size. I also have size XL hands. The 1911 fits Large and XL-sized hands just fine. If your hands are size XXL or overly meaty in the web section, yeah, you might have a problem with a milspec grip safety. But not everyone is going to fall into this category and many people can get along just fine with a GI-style safety.
Stringfellow
Member
Some of us with large hands have no choice. I thought I hated upswept beavertails, but that changed when my Colt drew blood within the first mag.
I was still in denial, and bought a commander-style safety to go with my commander hammer. But that was uncomfortable, and forced my grip lower than I would like. So I put a beavertail on it, and have not looked back.
WardenWolf, the commander safety should fit your pistol, since it is narrower than the full tang. For the sake of Karma, PM me if you want it and I will send it to you...
I was still in denial, and bought a commander-style safety to go with my commander hammer. But that was uncomfortable, and forced my grip lower than I would like. So I put a beavertail on it, and have not looked back.
WardenWolf, the commander safety should fit your pistol, since it is narrower than the full tang. For the sake of Karma, PM me if you want it and I will send it to you...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Lets not let this one fall into "The way XYZ intended."
The 1911 pistol was designed to allow several different conditions of carry. The US Army dictated hammer down on an empty chamber until such time that a fight was in the offing, and they had their reasons.
This topic is about grip safety style preferences.
The 1911 pistol was designed to allow several different conditions of carry. The US Army dictated hammer down on an empty chamber until such time that a fight was in the offing, and they had their reasons.
This topic is about grip safety style preferences.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
NO, it doesn't. It has a safety notch. That's supposed to be an emergency catch in case the hammer drops for some reason. It isn't a safe way to carry the gun normally.
A 1911 CAN be carried safely hammer down on a live round because the firing pin is not long enough to put pressure directly on the primer with the hammer down. (Inertial f.p.)
Fortunately, you don't have to carry like that, as the ability to carry "Condition 1" is really THE reason that the 1911 has soldiered on as a relevant sidearm instead of falling into single-action antiquity like the 1873 SAA.
But DON'T carry on the NOT-A-half-cock notch.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, the half-cock is a safety, and is referred to as such in the 1910 patents in Browning's own words...along with instruction on lowering the hammer to the "Safety position" with one hand due to the new grip safety design. The addition of the manual safety pretty much negated using the half-cock for a safety...but it's still there.
With the original captive half-cock notch, the sear and hammer are interlocked, and the whole fire control group is disabled. The hammer can't fall, and pulling the trigger won't release it. In many examples, even the trigger is immobile. That meets the criteria for a safety.
It's also a hammer stop. Browning had a talent for designing one part to perform multiple functions. The slidestop...also the subject of many a heated debate...is a perfect example.
It's a slide stop. It halts the slide's forward movement as it goes to battery.
It's a slide lock. It locks the slide when the magazine is empty.
It's a slide release, evidenced by the fact that it protrudes from the frame and has checkering on the top.
It's a barrel cam. It lifts the barrel into the slide.
It's an anchor for the link...to get the barrel back out of the slide.
The redesigned Series 80 quarter cock shelf is purely a hammer catch.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Aaaahhh... so, which does he have?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Dunno, Sam. Depends on whether the gun has an original half-cock notch or a new design with a shelf...but even the shelf can be used as a carry position. Pulling the trigger from the shelf will let the hammer fall, but the short travel won't give it the momentum needed to light a primer unless the firing pin spring is seriously compromised.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Except for the possibility (slight, I'm sure) of a blow to the hammer (dropping for example) imparting more force to the strike, I suppose.
Skylerbone
Member
RIA uses the new style quarter cock shelf and in all fairness it was called a "safety notch" by Sam and Tuner splained it in full.
Unless Warden goes about swappin parts or chimes in as to whether he'll be carrying or not or changing parts it is what it is but may end up something else. As his replacement Rock is park. I'd suggest grinding down the tip of the tail and a dab of finish so long as the current grip safety works.
Unless Warden goes about swappin parts or chimes in as to whether he'll be carrying or not or changing parts it is what it is but may end up something else. As his replacement Rock is park. I'd suggest grinding down the tip of the tail and a dab of finish so long as the current grip safety works.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I dont care for the oversized beavertail safety. I have small hands, I like the original grip safety spur (have never been bitten) and off-topic I like the original half-cock "safety" over the hammer-drop shelf. That's just me and if it doesn't work for others, hey, the 1911 is modular and can be modified to suit the individual.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Even that would be a bit of a stretch. The hammer wouldn't develop the speed and momentum needed to overcome the FP spring and reliably dent a primer. Fire a Garand or an M14, then remove the next round from the chamber. The primer will have a light firing pin mark on it every time.
It follows the same reasoning that a simple hammer followdown won't fire the round...even if the hammer gets all the way to the firing pin. In order for a slam-fire to occur, the hammer has to be jarred off of the full-cock position.
My Kimber the sear wore to the point that the hammer followed down to the half cock notch.
I have no idea what would have happened if it had followed the slide all the way down.
So, ever have that happen?
For Garands/m1a's, if the hammer follows the bolt down the rifle usually fires. Thankfully it fires in battery as the hammer nose and bolt notch prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin till the lugs are engaged.
It was common to hear the "chug - chug" of a M1a doubling in rapid fire. Someone's trigger job had worn out and the hammer was following the bolt down.
RogersPrecision
Member
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I like the look of a moderate beaver tail grip safety.
I have not experienced hammer BITE. I have experienced webbing chafe from a traditional grip safety that had sharp edges on the tang. If I shot more, the web would eventually callus over and be tougher, but I cringed at the idea of drawing enough blood to finally get there.
I shot a gentleman's 2011 race gun. He had polished and smoothed EVERYTHING. His beaver tail was ground down to something similar to the original Colt Commander grip safety, just better fitted from what I've seen of the Commanders. NO GAP between the frame and grip safety. It was to date it was the closest I've seen to perfect (IMHO) application of a wider tang to reduce web chafe, allow a higher grip, and still allowed some access to the hammer.
YES, I could have just removed the sharper edges from my narrow tang grip safety. I still wanted something wider to sit on top of the web on my hand.
I don't worry about manually cocking the hammer (or uncocking) as the thumb safety is adequate for my uses. I'm told a 1911 can remain cocked for half a century and be fine.
I have not experienced hammer BITE. I have experienced webbing chafe from a traditional grip safety that had sharp edges on the tang. If I shot more, the web would eventually callus over and be tougher, but I cringed at the idea of drawing enough blood to finally get there.
I shot a gentleman's 2011 race gun. He had polished and smoothed EVERYTHING. His beaver tail was ground down to something similar to the original Colt Commander grip safety, just better fitted from what I've seen of the Commanders. NO GAP between the frame and grip safety. It was to date it was the closest I've seen to perfect (IMHO) application of a wider tang to reduce web chafe, allow a higher grip, and still allowed some access to the hammer.
YES, I could have just removed the sharper edges from my narrow tang grip safety. I still wanted something wider to sit on top of the web on my hand.
I don't worry about manually cocking the hammer (or uncocking) as the thumb safety is adequate for my uses. I'm told a 1911 can remain cocked for half a century and be fine.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yes. The guns didn't fire. The mechanism is the same as the gun not being able to fire far enough out of battery to blow up, assuming that there isn't a serious problem with vertical lug engagement. Assemble the gun without the sear and disconnect. Rack the slide and ride it slowly into battery...watching the hammer closely. The slide lowers the hammer all the way down, and only releases it just as it goes to battery. The face of the hammer can't reach the firing pin until the last .050 inch or so of travel. There isn't enough speed/energy/momentum to drive the pin against the spring and strike the primer.
That's because when a Garand/M14 hammer is resting on the firing pin, the pin is resting on the primer. The 1911's firing pin is shorter than its channel. The pin can't reach the primer unless struck by the hammer.
Agreed. Not everybody has that problem. The only ones that bite me are the pre-A1s with the short grip safety tang and long hammer spur, and the original Commander design, and only when I reach for the pistol in a hurry and get the web of my hand on top of the grip safety.
My problem is the standard A1-type tang blistering my hand, and it takes about 250-300 rounds in a session to do it.
Heirloom Precision makes a very nice, abbreviated beavertail:
My hands are more sensitive than that.
My father in law, who taught auto shop to high school ers turned a fair number of wrenches and at one time had hardier hands, developed softer skin as he aged along with diabetes, his web would only handle a magazine worth before he was bleeding. It appeared to be ketchup. Initially taken aback but within a second was not offended.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
I'll 3rd it. Subtle and effective. The shape resembles the King's drop-ins, which...while not very pretty...they don't blister my hand even at 500 rounds...they provide the spot weld that I like...and they don't require frame alteration. Returning the pistol to stock configuration takes about 60 seconds.
Like many other things, I guess it boils down to personal preference and/or what fits the individual's needs. It's all good.
Like many other things, I guess it boils down to personal preference and/or what fits the individual's needs. It's all good.
WardenWolf
member
I do like the look of that abbreviated beavertail. Now where can I get it?
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