1911 Govt. hammer falls to the half cock notch

[Auto-revolver]

I got my 1911 back from Clark Custom Gun a few weeks ago. I've shot about 100 rounds through it since then. Last night I was working the slide when I noticed the hammer would follow the slide and fall to the half cock notch. This is the first time this has happened. This does not happen all the time. It only happens when I let the slide fly close without using the slide stop release.

 

[1911ShooterTJ]

Did they do a custom trigger job? If so sounds like they made a boo-boo. :banghead:

I'm sure Tuner will be weighing in here soon...

 

[alucard0822]

I have had the same problem on my kimber 1911, after quite a lot of research and reading posts about "hammer follow" I found this is fairly normal when dropping the slide either onto an empty chamber or to a lesser degree during "bubba loads" where dropping the slide onto a single round in the chamber with the mag not in the gun, a "tuned action" normally has lighter springs to hold the sear and hammer in the cocked position, a smaller retaining surface sometimes at an angle and usually polished, these can cause the hammer follow. Though it shouldn't happen when the slide strips rounds from the magazine this reduces the slam of the slide against the stop. Alot of gunsmiths and posts also tell how dropping the slide on an empty chamber can damage a good action job and create a notch or burr on the hammer/sear surfaces. hope this helps

 

[Auto-revolver]

Thank you, the chamber was empty and there was not a magazine in the gun.

 

[Chris Rhines]

...the chamber was empty and there was not a magazine in the gun.

It sounds like you've been dropping the slide on an empty chamber, is that correct? This is not a good idea with any autoloading pistol, but it's seriously bad practice with a 1911. Dropping the slide on an empty chamber allows the hammer hooks to slam against the sear nose, which can chip or break one or both. You may well have ruined your trigger job.

Don't do it anymore, and I'd send the gun back to Clark to have it looked at before trusting it to anything important.

- Chris

 

[Kruzr]

It's neither fairly normal nor safe. Chances are it's the left finger of the sear spring needing more tension. If not, then the hammer/sear engagement is not holding.

While you shouldn't make a habit of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, this is a necessary function check when doing trigger work. The hammer should not follow nor go to half cock.

Try adding tension to the sear finger on the sear spring by bending it forward a little.

 

[1911user]

If the hammer drops to half-cock even once, something needs to be adjusted or repaired. It is not normal under any safe circumstance. alucard0822, you need to find a better place to do 1911 research and also get your Kimber repaired.

 

[1911Tuner]

Followdown

Followdown to half-cock is usually either caused by the trigger bumping the disconnect under inertia...with a little hammer bounce caused by using a too-light mainspring and overtweaking/lightening the sear spring tension of the left leg of the spring increasing the odds of the occurrence...or the hammer/sear interface is out of kilter.

A quick test can help determine whether you need to add tension to the sear spring, or if you have a hammer and sear problem.

Pull the trigger and hold it full rearward. Yank the slide back and release it abruptly so that it'll snap forward into battery...or let it fly with the slidestop..whichever way is more likely to produce the followdown. If the hammer stays put, add tension to the center leg of the sear spring, and a bit to the left leg probably wouldn't hurt, nor would ordering a Wolff 23-pound mainspring and installing it.

If the hammer follows with the trigger held, it's likely a hammer and/or sear problem.

 

[alucard0822]

I do most of my research right here, and talk regularly with a couple of smiths, but seems like the general consensus is that hammer follow is from dropping a slide on an empty chamber with a light trigger pull and could be from damage to the sear/hammer P.S. 1911tuner has some great posts that have helped me in the past.

 

[Old Fuff]

One other thing. If you dropped that hammer to the half-cock ledge or notch very often, the angles on the sear that were so carefully adjusted may not be the same that they were. Originally it was understood that 3 1/2 to 4 pound trigger pulls were for bullseye target pistols only. Now it seems that a majority of buyers/owners want them on pistols they carry cocked and locked. This in itself is a questionable practice, but if it is done, all of the adjustments have to be perfect, because there is no room for error. You can tweek the springs if you want to, but springs sometimes "untweek" themselves by taking a set. I would return the pistol to the 'smith that worked on it in the first place and get the sear edges and angles checked out.

The Army specified a 5 to 6 pound trigger pull on a weapon for good reason.

 

[Jim K]

FWIW, I rarely carry a 1911, but I recently checked the one I did sometimes carry. Trigger pull weight was almost 7 pounds. When the adrenalin is up and things are going to hell rapidly, I don't want a trigger pull much lighter, since I don't think shooting myself in the leg will do much toward stopping an attacker. I see people bragging that they carry a 1911 with a 1 1/2 pound pull; when I question that, I am told that THEY will never become excited in a gun fight, that THEY will remain calm, cool and totally in control, that THEY will never fire a shot they don't intend to fire, etc.

This crud is usually from a 15-year old who has never had a real gun in his hands, but some people take it for gospel. I was a deputy sheriff for a number of years, and was lucky enough never to shoot at anyone or be shot at, but I have been close enough that I don't for one minute believe that "I will be in control" crud. IMHO, a four pound pull is too little for a carry gun; 5 or 6 is better.

(I mostly carried a revolver; SA was 2 3/4 pounds, but I never cocked the hammer and would have cocked it only if I had to shoot at a distance at a stationary target.)

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

Pull

Jim wrote:

>IMHO, a four pound pull is too little for a carry gun; 5 or 6 is better.<
*************

I'll have to go along with that about 110%.

About 5 years ago, I found myself very close to crossing that line. I had the muzzle aligned on his chest at about 10 feet. Because of the situation, I had determined that I was going to have to shoot, and had already started pressure on the trigger. (Interesting how slow things seem to go at times like this.) He had what looked like an ax handle, and was closing the distance...and I was cornered. Because it was dark, he apparently didn't see the pistol...a Colt LW Commander...but his friend who stayed in the truck apparently did, because he was screaming the guy's name, and telling him that I had a gun.

The drunk with the stick stopped, and stood down with what I would estimate was probably 2 pounds of pressure left on about a 6 pound trigger...took a step back, turned...and walked away. We both got to go home that night. My heart rate didn't come down for a half-hour.

A 3.5 pound trigger on a single-action carry gun? Not me. Not on a bet.
Triggers like that are fine on range toys, and for people who were born with ice-water instead of blood...and for gunshop commandos, I suppose.

 

[Chris Rhines]

FWIW, I didn't see anything in the original post to indicate that this is a carry gun.

Yes, yes, I know that the noble and honorable purpose of self-defense is the ONLY reason a pistol should ever exist, and that using a pistol for (gasp!) recreation only dilutes the manly purity of the firearm, reducing it from a protector of all that is good and true to a contemptible range toy, yadda yadda yadda...

- Chris

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Quote:

>FWIW, I didn't see anything in the original post to indicate that this is a carry gun...yaddayadda<
*******************

Nor did we. We were simply pointing out what sort of misunderstood and often botched trigger work leads to this sort of thing...and that the 1911 pistol that's had such work done is essentially operating in an out-of-spec condition...and when that's the case, it's usually a matter of "when" and not "if" the trouble will come.

At the present, I'd say that the ratio of truly gifted trigger men to the number of people who do a "Real slick trigger job" is probably standing at about 1:1,000 or so.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Nor did we. We were simply pointing out what sort of misunderstood and often botched trigger work leads to this sort of thing.

Good, glad that's cleared up.

Jim Clark's shop is not normally known for turning out bad work - hence my suspicion that dropping the slide on an empty chamber may have chipped or peened over the sear engagement surface. As you know, it doesn't take much.

It is always possible that the Clark shop let a lemon through. My advice would still be to contact the shop and send the gun back for inspection/refit if warranted.

Aside - It is possible to do a 3-pound 1911 trigger that is 100% reliable, never falls to half-cock, never doubles, and lasts for the life of the firearm. It takes the know-how, quality parts, and a few simple tools, but it is not rocket science or black magic. Any gunsmith worth the name should be able to do this - the technique is well-documented.

Whether you want a 3-pound trigger for your particular application is, of course, up to you. Be smart.

- Chris

 

[1911Tuner]

Chipped Sear

Seen sears chipped and damaged from the half-cock notch...but not from simply dropping the slide on empty. While using a reduced-power mainspring can lead to a little hammer bounce, it's not likely to bounce it as far off the sear as it falls back onto the sear when the slide gets off of it

Assuming that the half-cock notch has been relieved to prevent followdown damage to the sear's engagement surfaces ...which is pretty much SOP these days...and without seein' the gun...I'm willin' to bet that the sear is undamaged beyond normal wear.

 

[JagerTroop]

1st post. Hello THR folks.

1911Tuner, thank you so much. I am having (well... HAD ) the same problem on my Kimber Custom II. Thanks to your post, I'm good to go. No more hammer follow. All it took was the simple tweak of the spring.