1911 Mismatches

[jondar]

A question for you guys who work on 1911's. At a recent gun show I saw a 1911 which was a Springfield frame and barrell with a Remington-UMC slide. In reading posts on a few other forums I have seen questions on pistols with this same match. Maybe four or five. All the same, Springfield frame and barrell and Remington-UMC slide. In reading some of the 1911 sites on Google, one account says that in 1918, the US government cancelled the original contract with Remington-UMC to produce pistols, "but allowed them to continue to produce so as to use up the supply of parts." It goes on to say that later the machinery Remington used to manufacture the 1911 was transferred to Springfield Armory.

Have any of you come across pistols with this "mismatch"? In the answers in other forums, most blamed it on mismatching frames and slides after the pistols were cleaned. Do you think it would be due to sloppy reassembly or is it possible that Springfield may have used some of the Remington-UMC parts? Thanks for your comments.

 

[Old Fuff]

During the years that the U.S. Military used the 1911-1911A1 .45 pistol, any and all parts and components, including slides, barrels, etc. were considered equal. Therefore if a Colt (or whatever) was returned to an arsenal for rebuilding or refurbishing and a replacement slide was needed, one would be taken from inventory without paying any attention to what contractor made it and assembled on the gun being worked over.

Thus in later years it was not unusual to find a frame made by one maker, a slide from another, and perhaps a barrel from someone else. As a rule though, such "arsenal rebuilds" were marked in some way.

To confuse the matter, many guns that ended up in the civilian sector were also rebuilt, either by their owners, or by gunsmiths.

Never presume that the contractor named on the slide markings made a particular USGI pistol. Check the serial number and government inspection marks on the frame. They will tell who made the gun, slide markings not withstanding.

All of the pistols that were made by both Springfield Armory and Remington-UMC originally had slides that matched their respective frames. When they ceased production any and all remaining parts were kept and used for spares, sold as surplus, or destroyed.

 

[jondar]

The serial number on the gun I saw was in the same range as the one I have now which is #4501xx. It also had the "eagle" below the magazine release. The slide had no number, of course. I wish I had looked at it a little longer.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mismatched GIs

I happen to like the mismatched guns. Many are in good shape, and fully up to being a project gun that will give ya all the benefits of the real deal without takin' out a secured loan. Collector value isn't there, but the caveat is to know what you're lookin' at. Unscrupulous sellers will try to pass'em off
as originals and ask for top-dollar. Get a copy of Clawson's neat little hardback and learn to spot the differences so you can avoid the ol' gunshow rip. When the dealer finds that he's dealin' with a ringer, he usually brings the price in line...or ignores your data and tries to get rid of ya so you won't alert the next prospective sucker.

Some are honest though, and will tell you up front that the gun has little real value. I've rebuilt a many mismatched pistols and turned'em into top-notch
service-grade guns for about the same cost of a Loaded Springfield...total investment. Not pretty pistols, most of'em...but very good ones.

 

[Old Fuff]

The 450,xxx serial number range was assigned to Colt, and the pistol was likely shipped during September or October of 1918.

A "eagle's head over S12 and E1 was adopted on May 15th, 1918 as a government acceptance mark on Colt pistols. Other letter/number combinations were also used.

The demand for pistols was such, that these guns were sent directly to Brooklyn, NY, placed on ships and sent overseas to France whichout the usual stop-over at Springfield Arsenal. It seems probable that the gun was sent to France, used during the First World War, and probably rebuilt during the period between the World Wars (1919-1940).

 

[1911Tuner]

Mismatch

Note that, although many of the WW1-era slides can be recommissioned for yeoman service, they don't make good candidates for hard use due to the relative softness and are often subject to deformation around the firing pin holes.
This was later addressed by the installation of a hardened insert that was designated as a "Recoil Shield" that would better withstand the pounding on the face of the breechblock. IIRC, this modification was done in the early to mid-30s. Can't recall the exact year right off the top of my pointy head. I could go look it up, but I'm feelin' a little lazy.

IthaColts, Union Colt & Remington, SavageRands, etc. can make for fine service-grade pistols though, and will hold up pretty well, assuming that they're mechanically sound to start with. In fact, many claimed "Originals" that you'll encounter at gunshows are just such guns. Gotta have a program to be able to tell who the players are.

 

[jondar]

Fuff and Tuner

Thanks for the postings on the 1911's. I had more or less relegated my 1911 to it's Boyt 1918 holster and to a shelf in the closet until I joined THR and started reading the posts, especially in the Gunsmithing section, and now I can't keep my hands off it. Your postings indicate that the 1911 I looked at was probably refurbished after 1918 which accounts for the mismatched frame and slide. Next time I see one at a gun show I will take notes on the areas which you have described, hoping it may be of interest to others.