1911 Newby Needs CCW Advice

[Lawdawg45]

I must admit that I caught the 1911 fever after buying my Remington R1, and even with the 5 inch barrel I can conceal it better than my Glock or Ruger, but I would like to get a 3 or 4 inch model next. I'm seriously looking at a Kimber, but I handled a S&W at our local gun show on Saturday and was very impressed. I'm aware of the Springfield line, and the Ruger SR1911 is just an imaginary dream around here, so what would the forum recommend as far as reliability and smooth function? I've heard of issues with the 3 inch models.

LD

 

[2wheels]

Some will recommend you stay away from the shorty 1911s, they are the most trouble prone 1911s out there. But I like my Colt New Agent and Springfield EMP, they're both 3 inchers. I've had little issues with either of them. And they're very easy to carry/conceal.

But for the best blend of reliability and ease of carry, I'd go with either a Commander style (4-4.25") or a CCO style gun (That's a Commander slide/barrel on the smaller Officers frame).

I like Colts and Springers, they both offer good Commander style 1911s, and I'm pretty sure Sig makes a decently popular CCO style 1911. I'm unsure of their exact model designation, I want to say it's the RCS.

 

[357 Terms]

I CCW a Smith SC bobtail (commander).

I don't really think going any smaller is really necessary, mine conceals and shoots great.

Get a really good holster, nothing cheap, it can make a huge difference.

 

[mesinge2]

My favorite combination of a 1911 is a Commander sized slide and an Officer's frame. My current incarnation of that is my Springfield CCO. Its a tad shorter than a true commander slide at 4" but has the officer's frame. It truly makes an awesome sized carry gun:




That said I had a Colt Defender 3" with AL frame and it never sputtered once. I swapped the Defender with a friend of mine for something else I wanted (I prefer steel framed guns) and he has put quite a few rounds through it and it has performed flawlessly. Here's the Colt I traded away:

 

[Greg528iT]

mesinge2 Did you assemble that Springer CCO? That looks nice.

I picked up a Springfield Ultra Compact. read Officer frame and 3.5" barrel. I had read and read all about the 3" barrels having trouble. I opted for the half inch longer. So far, it's been great. I have no concerns about carrying it into any situation.

 

[bigfatdave]

my 3.5" cheapo PI-made Citadel 1911 runs just fine, given good magazines and ammo

don't worry too much about opinions from decades ago, manufacturers have figured out how to make an officer-sized gun work since the rumors started

Armscor makes the RIA and Citadel compact models, they call it "CS" for "compact size" and they work. If I had to buy myself a carry-size 1911 again right now, I'd get the RIA CS tactical, it has all the features I want on such a gun and is reasonably priced.
I liked my Citadel so much that I had RIA whip me up a CCO model with a RIA CS frame and a RIA MS (mid size) 4" upper - it came in well under whatever prices you've seen on S.A. and Ruger doesn't even make a compact, to my knowledge.

 

[matrem]

The only 3 "inchers" I have much experience with are the Kimber ultra carrys.
Those have the ramp built into the bbl and have proven "almost" completely reliable to me.
The only Armscor (RIAs, and Citadels) I have experience with are the 3.5" & 5" bbls, and both of those have the ramp in the frame.

The two 5" ones(one RIA & one Citadel) have been very magazine/ammo forgiving, while the 3.5 RIA didn't seem to like most magazines without that button that raises the front of the round a bit higher than normal.

FWIW, That 5" Citadel is one of the most reliable pistols I've owned..
With regards to the RIA 3.5", I may well have shot a "subpar" one?

 

[mesinge2]

mesinge2 Did you assemble that Springer CCO? That looks nice.

Thanks. The thumb safety and the grip safety were added as well as wolff springs but the rest is stock. They made these in the 90s with the short bushing like a Colt officer's model. Unfortunately they no longer make these. The sights are actually pretty nice too; a three red dot set up. I had a custom rig made for it too as its one of my favorite carry pieces.

 

[FMF Doc]

Sorry to say, but I agree with the old-timers. If you are going to go 1911, do it old school...5" barrel and good-old-American STEEL.

 

[Skylerbone]

It can be done and done right but far too many don't put the effort in before shipping 'em out. The theoretical potential for reliability favors the Government Model but if I felt the need for an abbreviated model I'd consider a Dan Wesson or STI. Before I'd consider that I'd have a true pistolsmith round-butt a longer one and, as was suggested, find a good holster.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I'm convinced to stay with a 4 inch version, and honestly I think I'm down to Kimber or S&W, so customer service will probably be the deciding factor. As with anything on the internet, there will be good and bad stories on both sides, but I have heard that after that first year of ownership with Kimber, you're swimming alone in the ocean. Opinions?

LD

 

[peacebutready]

My favorite combination of a 1911 is a Commander sized slide and an Officer's frame. My current incarnation of that is my Springfield CCO. Its a tad shorter than a true commander slide at 4" but has the officer's frame. It truly makes an awesome sized carry gun

I say it would sell if they brought it back.

I picked up a Springfield Ultra Compact. read Officer frame and 3.5" barrel. I had read and read all about the 3" barrels having trouble. I opted for the half inch longer. So far, it's been great. I have no concerns about carrying it into any situation.

The height and length look very balanced in that model. They should also make an alloy one, though. The current steel one is something like 32 oz.

I always wondered how much, if any, the extra half-inch helps with reliability over the 3" models.

The only 3 "inchers" I have much experience with are the Kimber ultra carrys. Those have the ramp built into the bbl and have proven "almost" completely reliable to me.

I wonder when they were made. I like them aesthetically but have trouble with the risk of getting a lemon Kimber. Are they completely reliable without the "almost" qualifier with ball ammo?

Sorry to say, but I agree with the old-timers. If you are going to go 1911, do it old school...5" barrel and good-old-American STEEL.

Isn't the Commander length just as reliable even if you have to pick ammo a little more carefully? If alloy doesn't hinder reliability, it seems good for people who are willing to accept a lower life-span in exchange for less weight.

It can be done and done right but far too many don't put the effort in before shipping 'em out.

I wonder if some co's take advantage of the patience of 1911 enthusiasts. Someone wrote "the customer is the last part of the manufacturing process", referring to some guns. The platform was invented when hand-fitting was cheap and machine work was expensive. Now its vice-versa. I wonder if this truly makes a difference today or is it an excuse. Maybe the machine manufacturing is necessary to keep the costs reasonable although I never read anything about profit margins on 1911s.

 

[peacebutready]

As with anything on the internet, there will be good and bad stories on both sides, but I have heard that after that first year of ownership with Kimber, you're swimming alone in the ocean. Opinions?

LD

I think the break-in period for Kimber is 500 rounds. I heard they'll tell you to shoot the 500 before sending it in. I think the customer pays shipping to but I'm not sure. If the customer has to pay shipping, I don't know why the warranty is just 1 year.

One idea is to put the 500 rounds through it. If it still isn't running well, have a 'smith break it down and examine it. Maybe he could write down on the shops stationary what is wrong. Then send it back demanding those issues be taken care of. I wonder what others on here think about that idea.

 

[Skylerbone]

Kimber doesn't properly ream their chambers and skipping that step causes a lot of headaches, especially in shorter variants. I know STI uses better parts and fits them more precisely than either Kimber or S&W and they do it for about the same price, with a lifetime warranty.

A link with prices: http://www.brazoscustom.com/sti_guns.htm

 

[Just One Shot]

I CC a S&W 1911 PD Commander (4" barrel & standard size grip) with the scandium frame. It's light, accurate and very dependable. Don't worry about the S&W external extractor because it flat out works (unlike the Kimber models that had them).

 

[Girodin]

I'm always game to buy a new gun, and I'm as good as anyone at coming up with reasons I "need" it. I have to ask what you are hoping to gain by getting the new smaller gun.

If it is size and ease of concealment then I would look at either a bobtail or a CCO size gun. If all you do is shorten the slide, then in my experience, you gain very little in terms of concealability, if carrying IWB. The bobtail grip tends to hide a little better and the CCO size gun gives you a shorter grip that hides away a little easier.

Weight: If you are looking for less weight then a commander size gun is lighter and a CCO lighter still. You may want to look at an aluminium frame gun if weight is the big concern. There are trade offs, and some people prefer an all steel gun. The weight savings of an aluminium CCO over a 5" steel govt. model is notable. The former weighs around 1.6 lbs, the latter 2.3 lbs. Above someone stated a steel CCO is about 32 oz the aluminium frame d one is about 25.6.

However, a note about weight. If one hadn't already I would always recommend trying a real good gun belt (like an Ares ranger) and holster first before the effort and expense of a new gun.

An officer sized gun will give you gains in both size and weight. Conventional wisdom, and the opinion of a lot of very knowledgeable folks is that officer size guns as a whole are less reliable. I would be more inclined to get something like a springfield EMP, that was somewhat of a ground up redesign. That is only an option if you are not set on a .45.

The gun I like the most, for CCW, that fits your criteria is the Dan Wesson CCO. It comes with a lot of features I like, and Dan Wessons are good guns.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-cco-bobtail/

 

[Old Dog]

My go-to 1911s for concealed carry are Colt Lightweight Commanders (4.25 inch barrel) and Kimber CDP Pros (4 inch barrel).

I like the lighter-weight alloy frames, although they do require a bit more practice to shoot proficiently than the steel-framed versions (Combat Commander, Pro Carry, etc.) -- especially if you're gonna use lighter than 230 grain fodder, especially +Ps, i.e., 185 gr +Ps.

For me, a general rule of thumb is that if one is gonna go for a less than full-size 1911, buy quality. For me, that equates to the SA Champion, Kimber Pro series, and Colt's Commanders as the cheapest 1911s I'll stake my life on ...

Though many say 1911s with less than a four-inch barrel are an iffy proposition, I do have two superb Springfield Armory Loaded LW Micro-Compacts that are truly awesome (in terms of looks and performance) pieces. 100% reliable, and very accurate for the past eight years or so ...

 

[Jed Carter]

I chose the CCO option a Commander length slide on an Officer size frame. The SIG RCS1911 with Novak night sights is my dailey beater, very accurate, concealable and totally reliable. They have a couple of CCO size 1911s including the C3 and RCS.

 

[Lawdawg45]

To answer Girodin's question, the major issue of the 5 inch steel frame was weight, and the 3 or 4 inch decision mainly involved around comfort for CC. The S&W I handled was amazingly light compared to my Remington, as was the Kimber. I do have an ammo question to add.........If I choose a Scandium or Aluminum frame, many are suggesting the 180 grain load, but does this cause feeding problems since the design was for a 230 grain bullet?

LD

 

[glassman]

Don't know what your budget is but take a look at the Dan Wesson CCO or Guardian. A little on the pricey side but, imo, worth it.

 

[Skylerbone]

Lawndog, can you ID which is the 185 gr. and which is the 230 gr.?

Both of the above cartridges are loaded with Hornady XTPs. The profile above the case mouth is identical. Now depending on the charge weight used you may run in to feed and extraction problems that can be addressed with a different recoil spring but that is true regardless of bullet weight.

The XTP in 185, 200 & 230 gr.

 

[scaatylobo]

Old timer,light weight

When I was much younger and stronger,I CCW'ed a full sized 1911 [ all Colts btw ] with 5" barrels as well as Commander barrel.

Now that I am older [ 65 next month ] the weight really bothers me and I normally CCW a Glock 23.

But I own and carry 2 Kimber light weights w/5" barrels.

They conceal VERY well and I go to a "mexican carry" to get a deep cover concealment for summer under a 'T' shirt.

Otherwise its a IWB Ritchie leather holster or a older Alessi DOJ.And that is a close copy of the Askins Avenger that I love for OWB carry.

I can actually carry both Kimbers with comfort ,when the need arises.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Lawndog, can you ID which is the 185 gr. and which is the 230 gr.?

Both of the above cartridges are loaded with Hornady XTPs. The profile above the case mouth is identical. Now depending on the charge weight used you may run in to feed and extraction problems that can be addressed with a different recoil spring but that is true regardless of bullet weight.

The XTP in 185, 200 & 230 gr.

Honestly, it's been years since I pee'd on the grass in the front yard! To answer your question, no I can't tell, but the spring can (as you suggested).

LD

 

[PabloJ]

I must admit that I caught the 1911 fever after buying my Remington R1, and even with the 5 inch barrel I can conceal it better than my Glock or Ruger, but I would like to get a 3 or 4 inch model next. I'm seriously looking at a Kimber, but I handled a S&W at our local gun show on Saturday and was very impressed. I'm aware of the Springfield line, and the Ruger SR1911 is just an imaginary dream around here, so what would the forum recommend as far as reliability and smooth function? I've heard of issues with the 3 inch models.

LD

Oh yeh the S&W is wonderfully simple. Take all stainless 4586 as an example. There is no external safties or levers. It has spurless hammer and works just like striker fired Glock pistol. By choosing S&W you're eliminating two weak points of the 1911 design the barrel bushing and slide lock safety which needs to be engaged when weapon is to be carried in cocked hammer mode. Just like in Glock or 1911 there is no second strike capability if
round does not go off but reset is only about half an inch and you will likely want to load fresh round from magazine anyway.

 

[Girodin]

I'm guessing he was looking at a S&W 1911, not a completely different model.