Hello, this is my first post. I am in to 1911 pistols and I have a couple of kimbers, 2 SA's. Today while checking my local trader magazine I came across a "Springfield armory Colt .45" I called the guy and he said the gun had been in his family since 1920. I went over and checked it out and I found the gun to be in great shape! The fella was 70 years old, he had got the gun from his dad about 30 years ago, and his dad got it from his brother, who carried it in WWI. The gun was last fired 52 years ago when the guy I was looking at shot it when he was 18. It was in a drawer from 1920 to about 1955. The he fired it and put it away. When his dad died he found the gun in a box in his dads attic, and put the box in his attic. The old guy has had 2 heart attcks recently and is liquidating some of his stuff. So from what I can tell, the gun is not 100% original. It has a Springfield Armory slide from 1914 or 1915 (these were the years they made them for colt, I guess), and the frame is from 1913, a colt serial number 265xx. The frame has the inspection stamp on it by the mag release, and it says "united states property" on the front part. The slide has the patent dates on it, says "springfield armory u.s.a" on it and on the other side has the SA eagle and says model of 1911 us army on it. The grips do appear to be original and are a darker color wood with the diamonds on them. You can definitely tell the gun spent alot of time on duty in a holster. I brought it home and completely dissasembled the frame and cleaned every part. I oiled the pieces and put it back together. The trigger has a heavy pull, but the slide feels truly beautiful. It has a wide spur on the hammer, and it appears like the hammer will bite me, not the grip safety. I am going to shoot this gun. I dont know how much it is worth, but I am sure the fact of it being a colt bottom and a SA upper hurts its value. I was trying to find a WWI re-issue, but who needs that when you can have the real deal? My camera is down right now, and I am not really sure how to post apic anyway, but I will try to figure it out as soon as my sony comes back from Best Buy. I am so exited about this gun I cant see straight. Any thoughts on it would be great to hear.
1911 pistol from 1913 bought today!
- Thread starter nolyaw
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Cool find. If I were you, I'd talk to the old-timer and get some history about the family. Maybe his dad or uncle told him some stories about the Great War. Maybe a picture of the brother in uniform could get placed in the box too. Respect the pistol, it obviously meant a lot to a few people to stay in a family for over 80 years.
That was one of the conditions of the sale. The guy saw I had knowledge of the guns, knew the history, which was more than he knew, and was impressed. I told him I was going to shoot it, which he also liked. I actually talked to him for about 2.5 hours. He had grat stories, but I had to pull myself away. Before I left he said he had some other "rifles" that I might be interested in, he forgot the nome of the one, but he said "you could empty a magazine in about 2 seconds" and I asked him if it was full aut, and he said "just hold the trigger down". So, sounds interestingly illeagal, but I sure would like to see it. Or whatever it is. I am going to call him today with a range repot, and possibly stop back if time permits. I guess some WWB will do the trick........pride only hurts...it never helps..zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead.
I'd second the "be careful!"
I recently lucked into a 1917 Colt 1911, although it's had a sad life... evidence of pretty heavy pitting under the reblue, and oversized 1940's target sights grafted on.
Anyway, long story short, the springs were shot. Or clipped. Or something... The recoil spring was maybe eight or ten pounds. Either that was done to set the gun up for very light target loads, or else it was just a 90 year old spring. Kind of startling if you run a magazine of standard FMJ through it, and not great for the gun either.
I recently lucked into a 1917 Colt 1911, although it's had a sad life... evidence of pretty heavy pitting under the reblue, and oversized 1940's target sights grafted on.
Anyway, long story short, the springs were shot. Or clipped. Or something... The recoil spring was maybe eight or ten pounds. Either that was done to set the gun up for very light target loads, or else it was just a 90 year old spring. Kind of startling if you run a magazine of standard FMJ through it, and not great for the gun either.
I went and fired the gun this afternoon, 50 rounds right thru it, NO malfunctions of any kind whatsoever. The last mag I emtied before the first casing hit the floor. Absolutely amazing. I'm going back tommorow with another 150. I cant believe that the magazine, and every part still works as it should. What would you expect to pay for a gun like this, ballpark. I know its hard without seeing it, but any thoughts?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Around 1970 or so I bought a 1911, serial number 4XXX. Nearly new condition. $70. Now, this was before "collectormania" hit the gun market. Not even pre-64 Model 70s were all that exciting.
I shot it a bunch and then went through a defensive pistol course of some 750 rounds. I shot a lot of GI steel-case "EC 43" ammo in those days.
My own personal opinion is that the steel in those old guns is just as good as any; certainly more than "as good as needs be".
I sold a 1912 1911 year before last. It wasn't all original either. I'm guessing that those old guns aren't really gonna change hands for over $1K, absent finding somebody who's really in lust.
Now, all original, deep blue? Different story.
, Art
I shot it a bunch and then went through a defensive pistol course of some 750 rounds. I shot a lot of GI steel-case "EC 43" ammo in those days.
My own personal opinion is that the steel in those old guns is just as good as any; certainly more than "as good as needs be".
I sold a 1912 1911 year before last. It wasn't all original either. I'm guessing that those old guns aren't really gonna change hands for over $1K, absent finding somebody who's really in lust.
Now, all original, deep blue? Different story.
, Art10-Ring
Member
Well done! When you can, post a pic of your new acquisition
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Old Colt
Wow...just...WOW! What a find.
Art...70 bucks. Those were the days, huh?
The problems with shooting those old pistols isn't so much because the steel isn't good. It is...but it's also soft. While the internals are good to go, the major parts...Slide, frame, and barrel...aren't heat-treated. Peening and deformation did occur, and while the military alwaays kept a good supply of spare slides and barrels for replacement...we usually don't have that luxury.
The other problem is that you don't know the history of the pistol, and how many rounds its seen in 94 years. The commercial models usually fare a bit better in this respect. I have a 1925 commercial Government Model that I would estimate probably hasn't been fired more than 1,000 times since it was built. I've seen USGI pistols that have been beaten into unserviceability...either during their tenure as warhorses, or in private hands
since they were surplused out and sold into the civilian market. As Art noted...in the 50s...60s...and into the early 70s...they were found at gun shows, stacked onto tables like cordwood. The nicer examples went for 50-75 dollars, and the rough ones for as little as 25 or 30. At those prices and with that kind of availabilty...why NOT shoot'em?
Clean the lucking lug and lug recess of the slide thoroughly and use a good light to inspect the rear faces of the slide's lugs for what appears to be a
stair-stepped appearance. Same for the barrel lugs' front faces. If it's there, lug deformation and setback/seating has likely taken the headspace beyond allowable limits.
Check closely for any sign of cracks wherever you find a sharp corner...most especially in the ejection port adjacent to the first lug and at the top left. The rear of the slide, inside the rail ways is another common place for cracks. Look also in the barrel bushing's lug raceway in the slide, and around the rear of the spring tunnel where slide to frame impact occurs during the recoil cycle.
Check the breechface. This is an area that's prone to peening and deformation, especially around the firing pin port. In late 1936 to early 1937, the problem was addressed by using a hard insert in the center of the breechface to prevent this deformation...known as a "Recoil Face" that was continued through WW2 production from all five contractors. If you look closely at the WW2 pistols, you can see it. Spot-hardening in key areas is also evident...which wasn't done on your pistol. These areas show different coloration. Full hardening on the slides began in late '46 and early '47.
Even if the old girl is in good shape in all respects...be kind to her, and keep the shooting at a minimum.
Wow...just...WOW! What a find.
Art...70 bucks. Those were the days, huh?
The problems with shooting those old pistols isn't so much because the steel isn't good. It is...but it's also soft. While the internals are good to go, the major parts...Slide, frame, and barrel...aren't heat-treated. Peening and deformation did occur, and while the military alwaays kept a good supply of spare slides and barrels for replacement...we usually don't have that luxury.
The other problem is that you don't know the history of the pistol, and how many rounds its seen in 94 years. The commercial models usually fare a bit better in this respect. I have a 1925 commercial Government Model that I would estimate probably hasn't been fired more than 1,000 times since it was built. I've seen USGI pistols that have been beaten into unserviceability...either during their tenure as warhorses, or in private hands
since they were surplused out and sold into the civilian market. As Art noted...in the 50s...60s...and into the early 70s...they were found at gun shows, stacked onto tables like cordwood. The nicer examples went for 50-75 dollars, and the rough ones for as little as 25 or 30. At those prices and with that kind of availabilty...why NOT shoot'em?
Clean the lucking lug and lug recess of the slide thoroughly and use a good light to inspect the rear faces of the slide's lugs for what appears to be a
stair-stepped appearance. Same for the barrel lugs' front faces. If it's there, lug deformation and setback/seating has likely taken the headspace beyond allowable limits.
Check closely for any sign of cracks wherever you find a sharp corner...most especially in the ejection port adjacent to the first lug and at the top left. The rear of the slide, inside the rail ways is another common place for cracks. Look also in the barrel bushing's lug raceway in the slide, and around the rear of the spring tunnel where slide to frame impact occurs during the recoil cycle.
Check the breechface. This is an area that's prone to peening and deformation, especially around the firing pin port. In late 1936 to early 1937, the problem was addressed by using a hard insert in the center of the breechface to prevent this deformation...known as a "Recoil Face" that was continued through WW2 production from all five contractors. If you look closely at the WW2 pistols, you can see it. Spot-hardening in key areas is also evident...which wasn't done on your pistol. These areas show different coloration. Full hardening on the slides began in late '46 and early '47.
Even if the old girl is in good shape in all respects...be kind to her, and keep the shooting at a minimum.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
From a money standpoint, yeah, those were the days. I remember in the 1950s on East 6th St. in Austin, seeing hockshop windows with a dozen or more SAAs with bluing in good shape, fro $50 and less. NRA 30% for $25.
No more nickel coffee, either, though.
But, one thing that's happened in these last twenty years is the amount of R&D that's made for high-quality, accurate and long-lived handguns. And, of course, all the new, high-performance cartridges.
All in all, for all that us Old Pharts talk about what oncet wuz, today ain't all that bad.
Art
No more nickel coffee, either, though.
But, one thing that's happened in these last twenty years is the amount of R&D that's made for high-quality, accurate and long-lived handguns. And, of course, all the new, high-performance cartridges.
All in all, for all that us Old Pharts talk about what oncet wuz, today ain't all that bad.
Art
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