1911 Plunger tube is loose.

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schadenfreude

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I have a springfield loaded 1911. While I was cleaning it today I noticed that the plunger tube is loose. The rear pin will come away from the frame a few millimeters.

Is this cause for concern? I noticed Brownells sells a plunger staking tool for aroun $30. Is this the best way to go about it? Should I get a new tube?

Thanks in advance.
 
You have a problem

That tube will continue to work loose until it falls off, launches the spring inside it who-knows-where, or both. Probably in the middle of a match....

You can:

1. Have a smith restake it;

2. Buy the Brownells tool and try a DIY; or

3. Buy an SVI - its tubes are an integral part of the machined frame! :cool:
 
The rear pin will come away from the frame a few millimeters.
Click to expand...
Wow! That is really loose!! My Colt Delta Elite stainless had a loose tube, but it would come out only a few thousandths of an inch. I shot the area under the tube with brake cleaner, then let a little red Locktite flow under the tube, clamped the tube (gently) to the receiver and let is set for 24 hours.
 
Loosie Goosie

The biggest concern with a loose tube is moving far enough away from the frame to tie up the thumb safety, making it impossible to move to the OFF
position quickly...asnd if your gun has a proper grip panel that supports the tube, that's not highly likely anyway. If the spring has the correct dogleg, and is properly crimped to the pin, nothing will launch anywhere. Of course, there's no guarantee of having these important little steps correctly done on many of the newer guns.

The designs that make the tubes an integral part of the frames are fine and dandy...until you drop the gun and damage the tube. Then a 10-dollar part and a 5-dollar replacement turns into a serious outlay of hard-earned buckage.

An honest smith shouldn't charge more than 5-7 dollars to restake it, since it won't take more than 2-3 minutes.

Luck!
 
And let's hope that whoever re-stakes it doesn't crush it in the process (as has happened to me twice now).
 
If your tube is really that loose it can't be properly restaked.
The plunger tube needs to be replaced.
Springfield will replace the tube under Factory Warranty program, send the gun back and let them do it up right.
 
Machined tubes

"The designs that make the tubes an integral part of the frames are fine and dandy...until you drop the gun and damage the tube."

You would need to do more than merely drop the gun. Given that:

1. The grips are equal to, if not thicker than, the tube;

2. The gun would have to drop absolutely flat to hit the tube with any force; and

3. The machined tube is thicker than the staked equivalent;

I think you'd need a linebacker doing his "happy dance" on your gun - while it was on its left side on a steel plate - before it got crushed.

Unless, of course, you were in a neck-and-neck race with Rob and Brian at the Nationals........ :D

Sending the gun back to SA seems like the best course of action. ;)
 
Been there, done that.

"Come on over and I'll introduce you to a close friend and associate of mine.
His name's Murphy"

Met him. Hence my express disclaimer:

Unless, of course, you were in a neck-and-neck race with Rob and Brian at the Nationals........

Tell Murph to keep his "happy feet" off my guns! ;)
 
Food for thought... several years late :)

Re SIGARMS' GSR 1911

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_50/ai_113853246/pg_3

Speaking of parts, most everything will be interchangeable with standard 1911 components. Not the extractor obviously, and not the plunger tube. "We machine a .015" slot into the frame, then stake it on," Matt explains. "The slot takes all the stress off the tube." Having seen my share of conventionally-staked 1911 plunger tubes come loose and screw up the gun--and having one integral plunger tube on another manufacturer's 1911 break, which effectively killed the frame and required a new frame--this sounds like an improvement to me.
 
A lot of current plunger tubes are made using MIM technology, and they don't stake worth a .... :cuss:

So the manufacturers don't stake, they glue them in, which also isn't worth a .... :banghead:

Before doing anything look inside the magazine well and see if the plunger tube holes are countersunk - because often they aren't. :eek:

If they aren't, staking won't do much good. And look at the replacement tube to see it the ends of the two pins are cupped, so that they will spread when rivited. If not you will have troubles. :(

Folks these days have to remember they don't make them the way they used to, and cost-cutting short cuts seldom result in better construction.
 
A lot of current plunger tubes are made using MIM technology, and they don't stake worth a ....

So the manufacturers don't stake, they glue them in,
Click to expand...

That stinks. Which does Kimber do? Staked or glued?
 
Is it the plunger tube or the ejector thats glued on a Springfield. I remember reading about them glueing something .
Click to expand...

You'll have to look and see, it could be either or both.

That stinks. Which does Kimber do? Staked or glued?
Click to expand...

Same answer as above. I haven't looked in a long time, but I suspect that they use an MIM tube and glue it.

Guys!! You have to understand... IT'S THE MODERN WAY! :banghead:
 
I had a smith fix it and he used a milled tube with longer pins for a more positive stake. I also put a longer mag release and replaced the FLGR with a traditional one.Ed brown I think... And a wilson combat checkered mainspring housing and I think the springs. All stuff bought at Brownells.

I will tell you this though, aside from the plunger tube issue I had in this post in 2004...... modern day or not, that Springfield loaded is a great pistol. Never had a single FTF, FTE, anything at all and it's accurate as the day is long. I shot it at 15, 25, and 50 meters this week and didn't have a single shot that wasn't in the 8 inch ring. (Tighter at closer distances of course.) Well pretty good for me. I can pick off used shotgun shells stood on a stump 15 yards away so I'm set for my hallway at home..... lol

Ohh a grip bushing was loose yesterday when I cleaned it....
 
I usually use a cutter ball and grind out a wider staking counter bore on the inside of the frame before I stake on a new plunger tube. That process gives a more positive counter bored surface to hold the stalked plunger tube legs in the frame.

R,
Bullseye


guntalk_logo_sm.jpg
 
I had a similar problem with my GI Springfield. Called Springfield, they gave me a repair number and paid shipping both ways. Pistol came back in about 3 weeks good as new. Remember, Springfield has a lifetime warrantee.

Ron
 
Pistol came back in about 3 weeks good as new.
Click to expand...

That's fine, but the replacement part was the same quality as the first one that failed. It may last forever, or you may find it loose again next week.

None of the manufacturers of today's 1911 platform pistols offer a product that fully matches the original government blueprints or material specifications. Not one has the kind of inspection procedures that were previously required. All of them have made compromises to contain their costs at the expense of quality - and by extension, reliability.

Can any of this be justified? Well to a degree - yes. If anyone made a pistol exactly like the ones made up to the early 1960's very few buyers could afford to buy it. To a degree, and with only a few very expensive exceptions, all of today's firearms show the negative effects of cost-cutting.

The bottom line of all this is to point out that if your personal 1911 style handgun is a big-boy toy the above probably doesn't matter. If it is intended to be a weapon on which you might stake your life, or the life of others you'd better think about it.
 
The bottom line of all this is to point out that if your personal 1911 style handgun is a big-boy toy the above probably doesn't matter. If it is intended to be a weapon on which you might stake your life, or the life of others you'd better think about it.
Click to expand...

Fluff, could we say that about other styles of handguns too?
Or is it just the 1911 style that suffers from cost cutting manufacturing techniques?

I hear Sig afficianados complaining about how the older West German 226's were better because they had stamped carbon steel slides instead of the newer cast stainless steel slides, among other things.

For those of us not old enough to have started or completed our collections in the 1960's, what are we to do, except be aware of the deficiencies.

My go to pistol is a stock full size Kimber TLE that hasn't had a failure-yet.
 
My go to pistol is a stock full size Kimber TLE that hasn't had a failure-yet.
Click to expand...

And it may never fail, or go down next week. Observing posts and threads on this and other forums I get the impression that Kimber’s reputation for out-of-the-box reliability is spotty. Part of this has been because of they’re reliance on MIM constructed parts that weren’t of the highest quality. So while you have had great luck (so far) others haven’t.

So can’t we make a truly reliable pistol these days using current technologies? Of course we can. Gaston Glock does, his pistols are consistently reliable, and that’s what any manufacturer should strive for. But he started with a clean sheet of paper and designed a new pistol from scratch.

The problem comes when someone takes an older design, such as the 1911 platform, and tries to duplicate the parts using technologies and/or materials that are less expensive, but inappropriate for the application. Then they make them tighter because from the buyer’s point of view tightness is a virtue – but fail to point out that tightness is virtuous only if the gun is hand fitted, which usually it isn’t. That’s the reason this idea of “breaking the gun in” is pushed off on so many unsuspecting gunnies... Obviously during both World War One and Two, Uncle Sam’s Army did not go out and put 200 to 500 to 1000 (pick your own number) of rounds through each of the hundreds of thousands of service pistols they bought – because they didn’t have to. But those were real weapons and not toys, and you can rest assured that the quality and reliability was not spotty or occasional.

Fluff, could we say that about other styles of handguns too?
Or is it just the 1911 style that suffers from cost cutting manufacturing techniques?
Click to expand...

No, the 1911 platform is not the only one to suffer, and any design that goes back to before World War Two, let alone World War One, is unlikely to respond well to being modernized if the parts themselves aren't changed to reflect the technology.

For those of us not old enough to have started or completed our collections in the 1960's, what are we to do, except be aware of the deficiencies.
Click to expand...

I started in the 1940's, and didn't stop during the 1960's :evil: Nowhere it it written that one must buy new guns exclusively. Admitedly, the kind of quality that was taken for granted years ago has been priced beyond what many can afford. But if reliability is critical, buy a gun that has a well established reputation for consistant reliability. While they are not my cup of tea, Glock, S&W Military & Police (pistols) and Ruger (most pistols) come to mind. I'm sure they're others and the used market is filled with these and more. All hope is not lost... :)
 
Fuff,

So what's a modern 1911 lover to do?
Click to expand...

When the plunger tube on my Colt Sistema came loose, I put some industrial strength super glue on it and clamped it for a few minutes. :eek:
 
So what's a modern 1911 lover to do?
Click to expand...

Buy older 1911's!:D Seriously.

My USGI 1911A1 pistols were made right, and have never malfunctioned (in one case, for over 100,000 rounds!)

Every time I encounter a finish-worn, but mechanically sound 30-50 year old Colt, I buy it. Don't let a bad finish put you off - that's one of the easiest things to fix. Poor quality parts and improper assembly are harder and costlier problems to address.

vanfunk
 
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