1911 question

[orionengnr]

Are the hammer, sear and safety interchangeable between a pre-Series 80 type 1911 Kimber (no firing pin safety) and a Swartz-safety-equipped (Series II) Kimber?

I am aware that installed fire control parts work as a set, and plan on swapping all parts as a set.

Is this safe to do? That is to say, can I expect that a set currently installed and functional/reliable/safe in one pistol will be funtional/reliable/safe in another pistol without gunsmithing?

Is the trigger a part of this set (must the trigger be swapped out as well)?

If you want to know why I ask...I own two 3" alloy-framed Kimbers. One (a pre-series II Ultra CDP) has Ed Brown safety, Cylinder & Slide sear and hammer, and 4# trigger (which as best as I can determine, is actually not a function of the trigger itself but of the sear/hammer interface).

I paid good money to have these parts installed and smithed. I am thinking of selling the pistol but will not get anything out of these upgrades. My carry Kimber has the Swartz safety. My desire is to swap the nice parts into the carry gun and keep it, and put the stock parts in the Ultra CDP, and sell it.

However, if I am overlooking something, and if there is anything that might potentially cause either gun to be unreliable or unsafe as a result of the heart/lung transplant, then (obviously) this plan gets scrapped.

Please, no opinions or editorializing. I am looking for knowledgeable 1911 guys to provide factual information.

 

[orionengnr]

Wow...24 hours plus, and no replies?

 

[Oro]

I do not have a Swartz equipped Kimber, but I studied the system when I was contemplating buying one a few years ago. From what I recall, the swartz system (or Kimbers variant of it, at any rate) did not alter the sear, hammer, and trigger, which are the only parts you are talking about changing. It has a rod riding on top of the grip safety lever, but doesn't require a separate, specialized safety. This is my recollection and I'm not an expert on the Kimber safety as I stated.

Your only hang-up would be if the modified and fitted parts are compatible with the safeties in the Ultra II. Sears, Hammers, triggers and safeties are fit to each other in each gun. They should probably work in your Ultra II, but you won't know until you try it. You may find your grip safety not working (which, with the firing pin block in place, you may not know unless you test it with the firing pin block removed), or you may find your thumb safety notchy or inoperable.

Given the way people value the various Kimber designs, is there a reason you don't want to keep the Ultra that has the custom work, and sell the Ultra II? Most people tend to prize the first generation slightly more.

Again, I'm not an expert on the Kimber fp safety, maybe 1911Tuner or some others have worked on it, but I think you can give it a try and see if it works. If you don't get an answer here, you may try it at the 1911 Forum and someone there should now right away.

 

[orionengnr]

Thank you for the reply. The reason I am keeping the Series II is that I have waaaay too much money into it to ever get it back out--stainless steel ramp insert, Cera-Kote, other non-reversible changes.

Unfortunately, if I cannot swap these parts, I may be in the same position with the pre-Series II...

 

[model14]

The pushrod in the Schwartz safety that moves up and down with the movement of the grip safety sits alongside the sear and acts as a spacer betweeen the sear and the frame. I don't know how that space is taken up in a non series II Kimber. There may be a washer spacer there or possibly the sear is wider.

 

[orionengnr]

...or perhaps the cavity in a Series II is larger, allowing the plunger to sit along side of the standard Colt-design parts (this is what I'm hoping)...

Anyway, this is one of my concerns, and I'm hoping someone can answer these questions.

 

[olyeller]

The hammer sear and disconnector do work as a set; within the 1911 frame they were fitted to. There are many inconsistencies between frames that still are within spec. You have the potential to create some problems either automatically so a little later down the road..
Ive seen this happen with guns Ive worked on; where clients swap fire control groups from a gun I worked on, into others to diagnose and solve problems with other guns.
Think about this; you didnt pay for a drop-in trigger job when you had the smith do the work; so its not unreasonable to think that there might be a problem if you do so, right?

To answer your other question, there is no difference between the base trigger group parts of a 70 series and a swartz safetied 1911.
There are things to be aware of, when fitting parts to each type of 1911, though.

I would suggest you keep the gun intact and try to get more money out of the gun. Trigger jobs by a competent smith should bring a premium.

good luck.