1911 slide to frame fit???

[Darkside]

I have been lurking for a while, liked what I have seen and decided to register. I would like to let everyone know, My spelling stinks and if there is a question let me know

Now to the question. I just bought a used Colt Ser. 80 1911 and the slide to frame fit is very loose. Is there a way that a person that is fairly good at using hand tools and has a well equiped home shop can tighten it just a little. Without getting out the mic. I would guess there is about .020-.035 slop in it. I don't mind a little wiggle but the klunk-klunk side to side woble has got to go.


Thanks Darkside

 

[1911Tuner]

re: Klunk

Howdy Darkside, and welcome to the forum.

If the slop is truly .020 inch...you've got a completely worn out pistol that probably wouldn't function very well, if at all...so I tend to think that it's
not quite that bad. Probably on the order of .008 to .010 inch at the most.

Side play isn't as critical as vertical play. As long as the slide won't pull up far enough to see half the recoil spring, it's probably serviceable.

On the tightening operation, it's best left to somebody who has the tools
and experince to do the job correctly, or it won't last long, at best...and the
gun may not function at worst.

When the frame rails are swaged or peened, and the bottoms of the ways
cut/altered to allow the slide to be refit, it lowers the rails. When the rails come down, the slide and barrel come down too, and may require refiting
of the barrel, the disconnect, and the link. There's also the chance of
getting the slide off-center if the repair is incorrectly done.

The good news is that it's usually not a terribly expensive adjustment for a pistolsmith to make. Only you can judge the gun's performance and determine whether it's worth the money to do it. Be aware that if it's badly worn, and your estimates are correct, that it will probably require
welding the frame rails and recutting them...which can run into money
unless you can do the work yourself. This isn't likely on a Series 80 Colt
unless it's been shot to death, in which case a complete rebuild is in order.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Darkside]

Thanks for the reply Tuner.

You are very likely correct in the slop being around .008-010 it just feels like a whole lot more.

I will get out the calipers and mics. and take some measurements and repost the results.

I have a friend who KNOWS the 1911. He checked it and said that it wasn't that bad. It just feels like it could be a little tighter to me.

Thanks again.

Darkside

 

[Dave Sample]

Tuner is right. Ignore it and be happy. There is nothing to be gained and you would do better to have a NM barrel and bushing installed to get some more out of it. Most Colts are like this. A typical factory gun. Taking down rails is not cheap. It's very labor intensive to do it right and Chuck Rogers is the only one I would let try it.

 

[1911Tuner]

A Matter of Trust

Dave said:

and Chuck Rogers is the only one I would let try it.

Awwwww, Cap'n! Ya mean ya wouldn't trust ol' Tuner ta do it for ya?

For sure...bringin' down the rails is a "zen" thing. Not that complicated
in theory, but ya gotta hit that puppy juuust right...

Later on! Got a starvin' Lab pup in the basement, and I gotta get to him.
Anybody within drivin' distance wants a nice little dog, PM me...

Woof!

Tuner

 

[Darkside]

LABS...not yellow I hope????

Tuner..if I hadn't just bought one about a month ago I would make the drive in a heartbeat. Mine, Jake is 4 mos. old 40 lbs. and into EVERYTHING less than 5 feet off the floor. Taken about a 3 weeks ago.

Ain't he just Cute

P.S. Please don't pay attention to the photoshop eye touch-up

 

[1911Tuner]

Labs

Nope..Black as a tar baby. About 4-5 months old. Somebody put him out
and by the time he got too weak to run from me, he was almost dead.
Good little guy, and well mannered. hasn't chewed on anything...not even
chew toys. He'll be ready to go in a few days. Gotta get a few more pounds on him first.

I've got a black Lab named Jake too...Another abandoned boy. Weighed
47 pounds when I took him in, and he was grown. Now he's at 97 pounds
and a real gentleman. I'd keep this one except I've got 7 dogs now.
4 Collies (one rescue), two black Labs,(both rescues) and a fuzzy little critter that makes dog noises, but I still ain't convinced she's a dog yet.
(Yorkie/Papillon mix)

Make the drive! Your pup needs a buddy! I need a break!

Woof!

Tuner

 

[Darkside]

You gotta be kidd'n I don't know if my nerves and my check book(destroyed property replacement) could stand another dog. I did mention to my wife that we should have another and she just started this kind of funny hystarical uncontrolable laugh and walked away I think she is still laughing and that was a week ago.

Thanks anyway for the offer

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

Slide pics.

Got out the mic and calipers and took some measurments. I thought a pic with numbers would help.

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

Frame Pics.

Here are the frame pics. with numbers.

Sorry the bottom numbers didn't come out to well so they are

.628 rear
.625 front

Looks like I grossly over estamated the slop It just felt like a lot more.

Now just need to measure the groove in the slide.

Thanks

Darkside

 

[1911Tuner]

Miked it

Howdy Darkside,

Pretty loose, for sure, but not as bad as many I've seen.

Your frame is within spec, but your slide is out a little, which is causing the sideplay. How does the vertical look? Put the slide and frame together
in the in-battery position. Lift the front of the lside and see if you can see more than a sliver of daylight at the front of the dust cover. Check it with
a feeler gauge. Ideally, you shouldn't see any light, but most pistols will show a little, unless they've been hand-fitted or you got lucky. The
vertical slop is more of a concern for me than sideplay, and your gun
may be a candidate for light swaging at the front to lower that area
a little. It will require refitting and lapping if you opt for that, but not
as labor intense as a full swaging and refitting.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Darkside]

You still up??? Guess I shouldn't say anything.

Don't have feelers with me but did try 4 postit notes mic'd at .004 each nogo, while lifting up on the frame. 3 when in(.012 approx.) just behind the front of the frame. I can see about 3/4" of light sliver between the slide and frame. Sorry for the crude measurments but it is what I had on hand.

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

This is what I am woking with.

Not much but it is a "Project"

 

[1911Tuner]

Vertical

Howdy. Up early this morinin' ain't we?

That's fairly loose...but not as bad as several that I've seen.
Sadly, it's pretty typical of recent factory Colts. Don't know why
they can't seem to do better. Their grandfathers could...and
they didn't have all the fancy CNC machining centers.

Do a search on A Disconnector Story here on the forum...It's
probably about 4-5 monts back. It addresses this very issue.

The biggest thing with too much vertical play is that, beyond a certain point,
the slide will pick up on the front, and let the recoil spring hit the tip of
the stock guide rod. The rod gets damaged, and the spring gets a serious kink in it. Yours isn't to that point yet...but enough use could get it there
in as little as 25,000 rounds...which may not even be an issue for ya.

Swaging the rails down at the front and refitting the slide will correct it...but be aware that unless you're experienced with the operation, it's best to farm it out. A quick-fix is to use a full-length guide rod, which will
limit the vertical lift some and eliminate the possibility of the spring to guide rod crash. Be aware that the one-piece FLGRs will sometimes drop in, and
sometimes they need a little trimming on the end to clear the bushing in some pistols...tolerance stacking being the issue.

Check your PMs

Tuner

 

[Darkside]

Will check for the prior post.

Not up early, just haven't been to bed which won't happen until noon.



PM back at ya.

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

I found and read the post.

Thanks for the heads-up

PM at ya.

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

Update

Tuner you asked me how much vertical in the slide and I measured using postit notes.

Got to really looking last night and there is a sliver of light showing between the slide and frame before pulling up on the slide.

I will get out the feelers tonight and take some measurments "before" and "after" just to find out how much vert. play there actually is.

Darkside

 

[1911Tuner]

Sliver of Light

Darkside said:

Got to really looking last night and there is a sliver of light showing between the slide and frame before pulling up on the slide.

That could be a matter of the frame rails being incorrectly cut...angled...
the slide ways not being cut parallel to the rails...or something
as simple as the dust cover being cut on a slight angle, and having a little too much clearance between the top of the cover and the bottom of the slide. Very likely the dust cover. Hold the frame up to a good light and
look carefully at the top of the dust cover in relation the the end of the
rail. Is it straight, or does it angle downward? if you can find a toolmaker's
square, you can really see it.