1911 strikes back. again!

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Levan9X19

Levan9X19

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I recently opened a topic here related to 1911 that locked up during assembly. With the help of forum member the situation was resolved.

Now we (I and an new owner of that pistol) have another major issue. I will describe situation in details.

First of all grip safety stopped working, on or off the trigger can be pushed back and hammer falls down. The worst problem is that if you lock the slide open and push the slide stop lever (if grip safety is not depressed) the hammer will fall to half-cock position. However if you lock the slide in open position again and now you grip the handle very firm, push the slide stop the hammer will stay as it should, in cocked position.
The trigger is VERY light with absolute no travel. you push it sightly, minimum or no travel, and click! it goes right away.

This is a true 1911 mystery, since I who basically understands how guns work, the new owner and a gunsmith who unfortunately has no experience with 1911 due to rarity of the last where left scratching our heads totally frustrated.

Again, comments, suggestion, ideas will be highly appreciated!

The gun is 9mm Bul M5,

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This gun needs to go back or rebuilt by a good 1911 gunsmith with new internals. I foresee a very unsafe run-away gun the the range.
 
It seems to me you either have:
1. A very poorly assembled gun?
2. An out of spec plastic frame.
3. Or an improperly adjusted sear spring.

The three lief spring you had problems with in the other thread controls the trigger & sear, (left lief) disconnecter, (center lief) and grip safety. (right lief)

Start out by bending more tension or foreword bow on the left lief to put more tension on the sear, and more tension or rearward bow on the right lief to put more tension on the grip safety.
Leave the center lief alone at this point.

However, it could be by now the hammer follow has already damaged the hammer hooks and sear edge to the point nothing will stop the hammer follow except re-cutting the hammer hooks and sear, or replacing them both with new parts.

Since neither you or your gunsmith knows how to work on 1911's, and semi-sort-of-clones of 1911's like your BUL?

I'd suggest if the sear spring adjustments don't fix it, you find a real gunsmith somewhere.
It ain't rocket science to figure it out.

rc
 
rcmodel said:
It seems to me you either have:
1. A very poorly assembled gun?
2. An out of spec plastic frame.
3. Or an improperly adjusted sear spring.

The three lief spring you had problems with in the other thread controls the trigger & sear, (left lief) disconnecter, (center lief) and grip safety. (right lief)

Start out by bending more tension or foreword bow on the left lief to put more tension on the sear, and more tension or rearward bow on the right lief to put more tension on the grip safety.
Leave the center lief alone at this point.

However, it could be by now the hammer follow has already damaged the hammer hooks and sear edge to the point nothing will stop the hammer follow except re-cutting the hammer hooks and sear, or replacing them both with new parts.

Since neither you or your gunsmith knows how to work on 1911's, and semi-sort-of-clones of 1911's like your BUL?

I'd suggest if the sear spring adjustments don't fix it, you find a real gunsmith somewhere.
It ain't rocket science to figure it out.

rc
Click to expand...
right now I am waiting for Wilson sear and will see how the gun will work (fitting is not a problem) but what is killing me how a firmly depressed grip safety can affect the sear hammer relationship???
 
It can't, other then the right leif of the sear spring which pushed the grip safety out of the frame is effecting the disconnector and sear leifs when the grip safety is depressed.

I still think the three-leif spring is the source of all your problems, as you had it assembled wrong (under the disconector or something) the other day when tuner helped you get it working the first time.

Seems to me it might have curves in all the wrong places.

So if you don't know how it should be bent on each leif?
I would either replace that with a properly bent Wilson or Colt spring before even messing with putting a new sear in it.
If it is the spring, you will ruin the new sear testing slide drop on it too.

rc
 
ok. I got your point. Will "play" with the spring and see the results. The problem is that it might be problematic to find replacement spring for ultra compact 1911 or do they all share the same length three leaf springs?
 
Quick diagnostics test.

To check the cause of the hammer follow, play the tip of your finger alongside the trigger and push forward before releasing the slide. If the hammer doesn't follow...bend the center leg of the sear spring forward.

Push up lightly on the underside of the grip safety tang and pull the trigger If the grip safety now properly blocks the trigger...bend the right sear spring leg backward.

When bending a sear spring leg, support it a little distance above where it joins the main body of the spring, or it'll snap off like a dry twig.
 
well at least I will know much more about 1911 and how it works. The guns was sold as it is to my friend but I fill uncomfortable to leave him with this pistol without any help and assistance. So far we view this gun as a project, for training and self-defense we have other handguns.

I do worry about this Bul M5 but it seems my friend is excited with this little adventure.

will do the test and will try to adjust three leaf spring. Step by step we will find what is causing problems.

Will report to colleagues about progress.

We simply dont want to discard this gun, because it is a good shooter, when it works :)
 
One other thought I just had.

On a true mil-spec 1911 frame, once the mainspring housing is installed on top of the sear spring, it is captive in the frame and can't torque sideways out of it's seat in the frame when the mainspring housing is installed to hold it in place.

It could be your plastic frame left some extra room, and the sear spring is able to torque to the right and lift the center and left leaves off the disconnection & sear slightly when the grip safety is depressed.

That would lessen the spring tension on them, even if the spring was bent properly out of the gun.

Maybe check that, and if there is excess space and the sear spring can rotate in it's seat in the frame?

Shim it with tape or something on the inside of the mainspring housing to keep it seated in the frame so there can be no sideways rotational movement when pressing on the grip safety spring arm.

rc.
 
The BUL was imported here under the original name and as a Charles Daly. Additionally, Kimber utilized the BUL frame to build their high cap guns.

Levan9X19 said:
... The trigger is VERY light with absolute no travel. you push it slightly, minimum or no travel, and click! it goes right away...
Click to expand...

Along with the other suggestions, I'll offer these. There must be some pre-travel in a 1911. Does your trigger have pre-travel limit tabs on the bow? Also, if the over-travel stop is set too close, the half cock may be bumping the sear on the way down. That can damage the finely fit sear nose.
Unlike standard 1911 pistols, you cannot remove the grips to observe the way that the parts interface. Suggest that you look over at http://forums.1911forum.com/ , http://www.1911pro.com/ , and http://forum.m1911.org/forums for threads that show that interaction. I did a search on BUL for you - http://forums.1911forum.com/search.php?searchid=12560621 .
 
Also, if the over-travel stop is set too close,
Click to expand...

it doesnt have an overtravel stop.

Maybe check that, and if there is excess space and the sear spring can rotate in it's seat in the frame?
Click to expand...

three leaf spring seats firmly. I guess we will pin the grip safety and this will make the gun working. so far waiting for new sear. and new three leaf spring.
 
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