trapperjohn
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i jsut stumbled across a 1911 style pistol made by remmington arms UMC the serial number is 574420 and says US property. what kind of value are we looking at for such a pistol in "ok" condition?
1911 tuner or others, remington 1911?
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Jammer Six
member
It's not worth a thing, but I'll give you a couple hundred bucks for it, just so you don't have to come out behind.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Remington UMC Pistol
Howdy Trapper,
Wow! At under 21,700 produced, the UMC is the least-often encountered WW1 era 1911. I've only seen two complete pistols.
As for the value...That's a subjective question, and depends on several factors. If the gun is original...which is doubtful, given its age and the
military's penchant for mixing and matching parts during arsenal rebuilds
and even routine maintenence...it would be way up there. Even if it wasn't
original, but had correct for the era small parts...it would be pretty high.
Union Switch & Signal built 55,000 guns...and those are fetching upwards of 5,000 dollars plus for a nice, correct example.
The pistol's condition also plays a heavy role. In the case of the above-mentioned Union Switch, responses ranging from "Wow. A Union Switch."
for a rough specimen to: "OH MY GAWD! LOOK AT THAT UNION SWITCH!"
for one that's really nice. Nice Singers have been known to cause coronary
episodes and start riots.
I'd suggest either having an expert look at the gun, or obtaining Charles Clawson's neat little book so that you can check the markings. You also might want to try shooting a PM to Dana Kamm...aka dsk...and pick his brain.
Our resident Old Fuff may also hold some inside information on the gun.
Luck!
Tuner
Howdy Trapper,
Wow! At under 21,700 produced, the UMC is the least-often encountered WW1 era 1911. I've only seen two complete pistols.
As for the value...That's a subjective question, and depends on several factors. If the gun is original...which is doubtful, given its age and the
military's penchant for mixing and matching parts during arsenal rebuilds
and even routine maintenence...it would be way up there. Even if it wasn't
original, but had correct for the era small parts...it would be pretty high.
Union Switch & Signal built 55,000 guns...and those are fetching upwards of 5,000 dollars plus for a nice, correct example.
The pistol's condition also plays a heavy role. In the case of the above-mentioned Union Switch, responses ranging from "Wow. A Union Switch."
for a rough specimen to: "OH MY GAWD! LOOK AT THAT UNION SWITCH!"
for one that's really nice. Nice Singers have been known to cause coronary
episodes and start riots.
I'd suggest either having an expert look at the gun, or obtaining Charles Clawson's neat little book so that you can check the markings. You also might want to try shooting a PM to Dana Kamm...aka dsk...and pick his brain.
Our resident Old Fuff may also hold some inside information on the gun.
Luck!
Tuner
trapperjohn
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- Apr 14, 2004
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- 567
the thing that has me puzzled is the serial number, or what i take as the serial number. on the right side of the frame it "says united states property no 574420" if that is the serial number then it couldnt have been a remington gun as they stopped at 21 thousand and something. I guess that leaves 2 possibilities, a) i dont know where the serial number is or b) someone put the remington slide on a colt frame.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Rem-Colt
Yep Trapper...That's the way it sounds. It's also not uncommon. I've seen
Springfield slides on Colt frames, and vice versa. A Union Switch slide on an
Ithaca frame once caused a stir at a show when the guy tried to pass it off
as genuine. Still not convinced that he didn't know any better, even though he got the benefit of the doubt.
Even so...The gun still holds some collector interest as an example of the arsenal refurbished "Frankenguns" of the era. If it's mechanically sound
and in serviceable condition, it's a nice conversation piece and even a
light-duty shooter...just enough to evoke a feeling of nostalgia though.
She's been through enough.
Yep Trapper...That's the way it sounds. It's also not uncommon. I've seen
Springfield slides on Colt frames, and vice versa. A Union Switch slide on an
Ithaca frame once caused a stir at a show when the guy tried to pass it off
as genuine. Still not convinced that he didn't know any better, even though he got the benefit of the doubt.
Even so...The gun still holds some collector interest as an example of the arsenal refurbished "Frankenguns" of the era. If it's mechanically sound
and in serviceable condition, it's a nice conversation piece and even a
light-duty shooter...just enough to evoke a feeling of nostalgia though.
She's been through enough.
trapperjohn
Member
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- Apr 14, 2004
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- 567
well, I couldnt resist tearing the old girl down and giving her a good cleaning. in the process i noticed that it did have the old style one peice steel machined trigger. I do not know enough about the other parts to determine if the internals are all WWI era or not, it does have plastic grips though
I'm getting more research then I can handle.
Tuner, you have hit real pay dirt! Details will follow later.
As for this gun. The highest number Remington-UMC went to was 21,676. A 1911 frame with a number in the 574,000 serial number range would have to be a very late 1918 period Colt. As Tuner says, mixed frames/slides are very common, but it is still a good gun.
The grips are World War Two replacements, and that may be when this gun was rebuilt. Question: Is it blued or Parkerized?
Tuner, you have hit real pay dirt! Details will follow later.
As for this gun. The highest number Remington-UMC went to was 21,676. A 1911 frame with a number in the 574,000 serial number range would have to be a very late 1918 period Colt. As Tuner says, mixed frames/slides are very common, but it is still a good gun.
The grips are World War Two replacements, and that may be when this gun was rebuilt. Question: Is it blued or Parkerized?
FPrice
Member
trapperjohn...
According to J. C. Harrison's U. S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 you have a Colt frame made in late 1918. But you probably already knew this. So at least you (appear to) have close time frame major pieces.
I have not expertise in estimating values (not nearly enough experience yet) but I'd probably offer $300-400 and see what happens. If I got it I would begin a major search for a matching Remington-UMC frame with a Colt slide.
According to J. C. Harrison's U. S. Pistols & Revolvers 1909-1945 you have a Colt frame made in late 1918. But you probably already knew this. So at least you (appear to) have close time frame major pieces.
I have not expertise in estimating values (not nearly enough experience yet) but I'd probably offer $300-400 and see what happens. If I got it I would begin a major search for a matching Remington-UMC frame with a Colt slide.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Details
Fuff said:
Tuner, you have hit real pay dirt! Details will follow later.
********************
Kinda figgered that...Now all I gotta have is the details! Gimme the details!
Kinda makes me feel guilty, considerin' what I gave the guy for it. I might hafta send him more cash to ease my conscience a little.
Fuff said:
Tuner, you have hit real pay dirt! Details will follow later.
********************
Kinda figgered that...Now all I gotta have is the details! Gimme the details!
Kinda makes me feel guilty, considerin' what I gave the guy for it. I might hafta send him more cash to ease my conscience a little.
trapperjohn
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it has a blued finish
Not sure what to think. I suspect a blue finish (especially a polished bright blue) indicated it was refinished outside of the government service. If it is a flat blue it could either be a very early arsenal refinish or something esle.
In any case it is still a good gun.
In any case it is still a good gun.
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