1942 German Mauser (98) from WWII capture, Numbers Matching

[Blue68f100]

My dad brought back this mouser when he returned from Europe at the end of WWII. I did find out that it was made in Austria, 8mm. He decided to lighten the gun by cutting off the bayonet mount and refinish it. I found the bayonet (does not match, SN) but never found the mount or the stock that was removed, as well as the front sight cap. I asked him if he knows where it was and he said he did not know. I found the bayonet when I was cleaning the house out, it was hidden big time. He removed it when my brother and I was young and he needed another rifle for us to deer hunt with, 45+ yrs ago. He had also moved to the place I have now. I cleaned it about 20 yrs ago when he gave it to me to put in my safe. At that time I did not have any copper solvent. So I removed the action to check for rust and do a detail cleaning. What I found was very little rust, but lots of Cu fouling. All the pieces are marked with the SN, stock included, except the bayonet. He said those were thrown into a different pile. Upon cleaning I noticed the top hand guard had a crack. GunnyUSMC had me looking at the stock from all of his repairs. It would have been nice to find the mount and reattach it, making it authentic. ( ? What are the holes in the stock for behind the sling?)

The crack almost goes full length, right of center. If I remember correctly I need to cut some bands to add some glass to hole it together. I have some West Epoxy left over from my boat rebuild/repair a couple of years ago. I also have some 5 oz matting scraps left to use for this. Do I need to open the crack up little for the epoxy to fill on the inside where the bands will be?


I don't think my dad pulled the action when he refinished the stock. He has runs all over, even on the action. It was a pain to get the magazine door to open since the finish had run into the door. I ended up just remove the trigger guard/box as a assembly then poured some Ed's Red inside to soften the finish so I could open the mag box. I used Ed's to remove the excess finish off the action, since it dissolves it. Which brings up another question. I'm not a wood worker so I need some guidance to remove the finish. I think he used Tong oil, since I vaguely remember him complaining it takes for ever to dry. I do know Ed's Red dissolves it, which contains, MEK, Mineral spirits. So is it save to use the spirits or MEK to strip the finish?

The bore has good rifling but is corroded pretty bad.
There is something in the chamber neck I have not seen before, looks like something is stuck on it.

The leads show erosion with some metal that looks to have been misplaced? If any one know what I'm looking at I would like to know since this is the first time I've seen this.

 

[vintovka]

The holes are for bolt takedown. If left untouched and all numbers match these can bring several thousand. Cut down and with a bad bore may reduce to several hundred with only the matching parts as a saving grace.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

98K bayonet serial numbers were not matched to the rifle's serial number.
Logistics on matching blades and rifles (9 million plus 98Ks made) numbers
would have been a daunting task even during peacetime.
The scabbard and blade numbers were matched to each other by the myriad of
different manufacturers though.

The photos of the chamber? show what looks to be pitting to me.
98K's had a long tapered leade in the throat.
Does a fired 8mm case fit into the chamber and, if so, what does the case mouth measure?

JT

 

[Blue68f100]

This gun has not been fired in decades. I do have a few pieces of the fired brass I can check, and compare against new. Will post the results later today. I can make a cast of the chamber if I need too. Using the bore scope that last 6" of the barrel and rifling looks to be in good shape. Some pitting but not near as bad, the rifling is sharp, and the crown is good.

I had no idea that this gun was worth so much.

 

[vintovka]

It is possible to add the missing stock piece as appears to be cut in front of band. The handguard is another matter. Both require some skill and finding a donor pieces. Matching finishes really takes skill. A correctly waa'd/serialed front band/ lug and band spring would be a real trick to find.

Restocking is another matter. K98 stocks can be found but nice ones run several hundred plus. I would prefer repairing the original. I restored an all matching SS marked and issued K98 with replacement stock and handguard from Norway. It was near mint in and out save for wood, I have never found correct front metal. I only did so as original stock was not only cut down but the butt was sanded to 1" thick! Whoever did it reduced value several thousand!

In the end bores can make or break value on k98s.

 

[Blue68f100]

98K bayonet serial numbers were not matched to the rifle's serial number.
Logistics on matching blades and rifles (9 million plus 98Ks made) numbers
would have been a daunting task even during peacetime.
The scabbard and blade numbers were matched to each other by the myriad of
different manufacturers though.

The photos of the chamber? show what looks to be pitting to me.
98K's had a long tapered leade in the throat.
Does a fired 8mm case fit into the chamber and, if so, what does the case mouth measure?

JT

Yes they do. I measured a few pieces of the fired brass. The necks avg 0.351" but have a slight taper 9.1mm-9.02mm. The shoulder position has moved 0.005" forward when compared to a new unfired mil ammo. When I was looking at the fired brass I noticed a pierced primer. No markings on the bolt face, still clean. All the ammo left showed gingivitis, aka corrosion. I broke them all down and the powder is breaking down, sticking to the case, and corroding through. The newest FC ammo had stick powder, the mil had a large flake powder.

The holes are for bolt takedown. If left untouched and all numbers match these can bring several thousand. Cut down and with a bad bore may reduce to several hundred with only the matching parts as a saving grace.

How does that work?

I'm going to disassemble the bolt and clean it while I'm gleaning every thing up. I'm thinking of applying some JJ Paste Wax on the barrel, magazine box for protection against corrosion. The oil the action down real good.

Question:

With the crack in the hand guard, would you leave it as is? Or would you go ahead and make the repair before it gets any worst? I have to strip the finish anyway but there is no finish on the inside of the hand guard or stock, as it should be. SN: 8551

 

[Blue68f100]

I've removed the finish on the hand guard and the crack shows up pretty good. Runs the full length of the hand guard.


It appears this may have had a very dark stain/finish on it. The front part there is some original finish that is very dark and hard to remove. The inside may have a lacquer or varnish on it to protect it.

Got the bolt cleaned up. All I can say is the FP spring in this thing could drive nails without any problem, one strong spring. It operates a lot easier/smoother now, once I got out all of the dried up grease and every thing lubed. Found a little rust on the detent spring but that was it.

 

[vintovka]

Disassemble bolt, put end of firing pin thru hole push down to remove cocking piece. BTW a pic of the receiver top and side would help verify maker and value. I see end of handguard is still there. Would repair as the matching # is the money.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

A Steyr ('bnz' marked - the only Austrian 98K manufacturer) made in '42, as you mentioned in your original post, would have been stained
a red tinted color as your first photo shows.
Could it be that your father just put a coat of finish over the original one?

As to the ammo shown, the pre-war 2 stuff looks in better shape than the old corroded commercial Federal
but I'd not shoot either.

The corrosion around the primer (does not appear to be a pierced primer to me)
looks to indicate brass weakening in the area of the case head.
There is a big difference between a case that ruptures at the web and one that ruptures down thru the head.

JT

 

[Blue68f100]

Talked to my brother last night on the mauser. He said my dad shorten the stock to by ~1", which I did not know. Does some one have a measurement from the butt to a reference point like back of the receiver I can compare too. To confirm how much was removed.

The primer pierced on 2 of the 3 cases shown. Been hand loading for over 40 yrs, they pierced. One pierced in 2 locations around the primer. This is also a indication of the powder breaking down with time. I tore down all the ammo I had, did not want someone firing them and something bad happen. Beside old powder can spontaneous combust if conditions are right. Beside the nitric acid eating things up. Some powders get more powerful as they decompose, while others loose power. Better to margin on the safe side. Will clean up the brass to get a closer look of the brass internals.

Below are some close up photos of the mauser showing most of the identifying marks. If you need some other view let me know and i will get them for you. The stock is also marked with the SN. I've removed the linseed oil from the metal parts using a solvent.

I need to find a stripper that works to remove linseed oil from the stock. I really don't want to sand on the stock unless I have too.

 

[vintovka]

I did not know that the buttstock has been cut. At this point I think its well worth just fixing the handguard and replacing the stock. Adding an inch would be a real task and with the fore end missing it may be beyond restoration (especially with laminated wood). I suggest you read up on these on this forum before all else. Most there are far more knowledgeable than me. Do expect offers to buy it as K98s have drifted into the realm of unobtanium.

https://www.k98kforum.com

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Blue
From the back edge of the tang to the front edge of the buttplate, should be approximately 11.5 inches.

Being that the stock is a laminated stock, you will want to use a mild stripper to remove the finish your dad put on it. If you use a strong stripper or soak the stock, you could cause it to delaminate.
The handguard repair is pretty simple and straightforward. First use a little denatured alcohol to clean any oil from the crack. If you break the repair down into two parts, it much easier.
First mix some epoxy resin. Apply it to the crack from the inside of the handguard. Then flex the crack to get some resin into the crack. Then use a piece of wood and some string coated with wax to clamp the crack closed.


Once the epoxy has cured, you can make the cuts to the inside to reinforce the repair. The 98 handguard is short and will only need to be reinforced at both ends of the crack. You just need to remove enough wood so that the fiberglass cloth will lay just below the surface.
Apply resin into the cutouts and then lay in the cloth, then add a little more resin. Let it cure then cut everything level with the inside of the handguard. This can be done by wrapping sandpaper on a wood dowel.

 

[Blue68f100]

Lets try this again, since the server went down during my post.

Gunny, Thanks for responding. Doing it in 2 steps will definitely make it easier. From what I can tell the hand guard is still together, without any flex. I want to preserve the SN so I will mask it and work around it. How wide does the bands need to be? This is the top piece so I don't think there is much load on it.

What do you recommend for the Stripper? I'm not a wood worker but have done a few furniture builds over the years. No nothing about stripper.

I'm measuring 12" from the back of the butt to the rear mounting hole. 4 3/4" to the primer take down hole, 6 1/2" to the sling slot on the left side.

 

[Blue68f100]

I'm not sure the stock was cut by looking at the butt cover plate. My dad has never had a counter sink large enough to cut these. And if he did the but plate would not fit tight as it does.


I had time to check the hand guard for flex. It will flex in but will not spring out. If I put epoxy on the outside I will have to use acetone to remove the excess and I don't thing linseed oil will stick to it.

I found what my dad used, he never threw anything away. Boiled Linseed oil from the 60's This explains the real dark spots I'm seeing. If I had to guess he applied only 2 coats real thick. I used some low odor mineral spirits and it softened it were I could scrape it off with a plastic scraper. I got most of the heavy stuff cleaned off.



What is the best way to remove these caps for the FP? I know I have to remove all of the finish to have a chance of getting them off. As you can see these got sanded a little when my did worked on it. Are these caps glued in?

 

[vintovka]

Uh something is really strange about your stock. First off the take down washers look heavily sanded and their inletting looks like its been recut. The washers are held in place with a tube that has had its ends flaired. The washers had a Waa mark with looks sanded off The buttplate inletting looks arsenal but looks a bit short. May be just pic. If the Nazi marks all all gone the value went with them. Replacing the stock now seems even more desirable.

 

[Blue68f100]

Thanks for the info. This is the first time I've ever touched a mauser, my brother was the one using it. All he did was shoot it. I only cleaned it when he gave it to me to store in my safe.

The only thing I have not seen the nazi markings on have been the stock (wood), and the butt plate. To my knowledge, the only thing my dad has done to the gun is cut off the bayonet trying to lighten the gun up. Then refinished the stock without removing the barrel or any hardware. Still wondering how he got the bayonet mount off with out removing the action.

I'm not seeing the tube, so it's mia. I will remove all the linseed oil around the take down washers to see if they have any markings. The finish ran into parts gluing them together, base on mag box, and hand guard/stock. My dad never took any gun apart to detail clean. And this is the only one he has refinished.

Later on if he had a gun acting up, normally his 1100 shot gun, I was the one taking it apart and cleaning it. Normally it was a piece of shot getting down into the recoil spring plunger from his reloads leaking shot. He shot very little rifle later on in life since he had retina degeneration, which gave him a blind spot in his shooing eye (L).

The stock seams to be the only thing that is messed up along with the front sight guard missing and bayonet mounting hardware. Every thing else seams to be as he got it. Thanks for all the help. At least now I know what has been damaged/tampered with or missing.

Any idea as to what this gun is worth in it's current condition?

 

[Armorer 101]

What a waste of time.
Hang it on a wall as is, or make a decent custom sporter out of it. If you want to make a tribute to your father, make a real nice custom rifle out of it. Something you can hand down to your kids.
I have done several dozen of these and the family is very proud to own them. But you must do a nice job of it, good wood, nice elegant steel work and finish, including the family name and the builder’s logo. You actually create a new history.

 

[vintovka]

[QUOTE="


Any idea as to what this gun is worth in it's current condition?[/QUOTE]

The value is in the matching barreled action and possibly the handguard. The bore is a negative issue buy many seem desperate given todays chaos. Rough Guess is somewhere around $500+. (heck all matching bolts now fetch 2-300 alone).

Just for comparison another complete matching, shiny bore K98 of same manufacture just sold on net for near 4K+ recently. The dollar is fading fast and folks are buying high end for investment. The RIA auction at end of year will sell some nice ones for 3x that!!!!!

The true value is sentimental. As recommended by others I would restock it, add hardware and hang it. A note with all pertinent information on your dad is a legacy thing and strongly reccomended. "never forget" you may need it so adding 100 rounds is not a bad idea.

I may have everything needed to restore it in my late buddys estate but won't know for a month.

 

[Jim Watson]

Re-mil to German GI or NICE sporter would be an expensive project and leave you with just another Mauser.

I would glue the hand guard, improve the finish however you can, clean the barrel thoroughly, and you will have Dad's Rifle the way Dad wanted it back then.

 

[Blue68f100]

I cleaned up around the disk this morning. The tube is still in place, filled with a bunch of linseed oil runs. On one end you can actually see the tube where it goes through the disk. Has a couple marks on the disk were it was rolled over marking it. No other surprises in the stock. Where the bayonet was removed you can see where my dad filled the wood slot on the right side and a small dimple in front.

Would be kind of nice to put it back to near as original I could. May have to hunt down some dies and brass to load some ammo for it. I would not put much faith in old surplus ammo.

 

[Blue68f100]

Re-mil to German GI or NICE sporter would be an expensive project and leave you with just another Mauser.

I would glue the hand guard, improve the finish however you can, clean the barrel thoroughly, and you will have Dad's Rifle the way Dad wanted it back then.

That's what I have been working on. Originally I was going to use the action and build another gun till I discovered it matching numbers.

Would like to find a front section with the bayonet mount to put if back to near original.

 

[vintovka]

Replacing front is not easy. Lamination and color hard to match plus i think i have seen only 2 available in last 30 years. Many went in the fireplace long ago. It is very possible yours may have been "duffle cut" before it got back to the US. Many were chopped to fit in regulation size boxes GI's were allowed to send home. I doubt duffle bag were used but could have been. My dad sent home a parade k98 and a Fireman's Dress bayonet from an Aachen Firehouse just after the city was captured in Late 1944. I still have the bayo. but his brothers assumed it was all a "gift" and hocked the rifle before he got home. He often told me about having the stock cut down to fit in a "regulation" sized wooden crate and including all the pieces. His girl friends father made the box and oft think i have a German step brother over there,

Should you find a forend or even a broken stock with what you need here's a link i hope will help.


https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/duffle-cut-repair-pics.3289/

 

[eastbank]

to me it would be a money pit, but if its a labor of love. have at it and enjoy it for what it is, a rifle your dad earned the hard way. i,d be proud to own it. i have a 7.7 japanese rifle my late uncle left me that he brought home from the south pacific.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Info on the hand guard repair. Use paste wax to coat the areas you don’t want epoxy to stick.
The cuts on the inside only need to be approx a1/4 inch on both sides.
For the finish. If it’s just BLO , mineral spirits will remove it. Don’t soak the stock with it. To much can damage the glue in the stock.
The but stock on your rifle has not been cut.
The takedown disc on the stock should not be removed. I’ve only had to reinstall them on 7 or 8 stocks and if you’re not sure on how to do it, it’s a pain.
20 years ago, restoring a rifle wasn’t that costly, but today, depending on the rifle it can cost a good bit.
As is, your rifle is worth around $500. But on an auction it could bring as little as $400 and as much as $900.
I’ve repaired several duffel cut stocks. Not my favorite work to do but people pay good to have it done. I changed as little as $100 if the person has all the original parts. Matching a replacement fore end would be hard, but if you can find a broken stock with the same color glue, it can be matched up. But you would need to buy all the missing parts.
If you buy a replacement stock, be sure to buy one with the handguard, that are not all the same size.

 

[Blue68f100]

I filled the crack with epoxy this morning and it's now drying. The only fiber glass matting I have is 6 oz which is pretty heavy, appox 0.050" thick. Which I do have enough thickness in the hand guard to use. I will probably taper the glass so it feather out so it will require less clean up.

Here are a few pictures of the progress. Stock stripped mostly, still have some areas to clean up. This is actually a pretty stock once I got off all the bad finish.
Ignore my cluttered bench, though it's not real bad right now.



And the end of the stock where the bayonet as cut off.


Got the PP disk cleaned. The second photo shows the tube, if you look closely.


Sling slots cleaned up.


The pillar block retaining pin is not centered and exposed on 1 side. How should this be finished off? Filled so it's flush with the stock? Blackened, to hide it? Both?


I have some black pigment used in gel coat finishes to color it I can add to the epoxy. And or body filler which is redish color.

I will be ready to add the reinforcement to the inside of the hand guard tomorrow. If the crack was in 2 pieces I would do the internal reinforcement today when the re-coat window openes up. Then the 2 would bond (fuse) to each other. I'm using West Epoxy.