19th Century Marksmen

[LoneRider]

I recently posted a thread in the rifle forum on theMarksmen of the Sepoy Rebellion (1857). It was suggested that I discuss the history of said riflemen in this forum.

A bit of my background: I'm a serving US military officer in Iraq who studied history extensively while a student. I've studied all periods of history, but recently I've become interested in reading about 18th and 19th century feats of marksmanship.

I found the tales of men like Jim the Nailer (mentioned in the thread linked at the beginning), Berdan's Sharpshooters and the Confederate Whitworth and Enfield men to be fascinating. And let's not forget the legendary riflemen wielding their Kentucky Long Rifles that took down many British and Hessian officers and NCOs.

I remember reading in Adrian Gilbert's book Sniper back in 2002 that frequently artillerist versus marksman duels would be won by the marksmen killing off many of the artillerists, forcing them to retreat or keeping their heads down so that friendly cavalry could overrun them.

I've got other questions in the Jim the Nailer thread too.

 

[messerist]

Lone Rider, I did my Master's Thesis on the Indian Mutiny(AKA The Sepoy Rebellion)! It was more a study of the changing historiography of the Mutiny than an examination of the military operation to quell the Mutiny. I found some of the primary sources from British Officers fascinating. I wish that when I had access to Lord Robert's archive I had done more study on the tactical operations(time and money constraints..alas). It is nice to meet someone who is interested in the Mutiny. Any questions you have I will be glad to answer. My younger Brother is serving in Iraq as a Division G-4. I wish you all the best and Godspeed.

 

[arcticap]

I didn't know anything about the Sepoy Rebellion until I looked it up.
It was all very captivating to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepoy_Rebellion

 

[NobleSniper]

I did a small bit of reading on that a couple of years ago. real interesting. Might have to se what I can find at the bookshop.......

 

[LoneRider]

Thanks for the information. I found the feats of some of the American Civil War Marksmen to be nothing short of staggering, especially considering how crude their answer to today's precision sniper rifles were by comparison.

I rather liked one account of a Union marksman who killed a troublesome Confedrate sniper that had just shot a Colonel standing by his battery.

Rogh quote: "He moved his cap over the top of the berm. Of course Johnnie Reb had a go at it, thinking to kill the careless man beneath.

He jammed his ramrod into the hole where the Confederate's ball had impacted and lay on the ground and worked out that Johnnie Reb was concealed in an elm tree 150 meters away.

It was work of less than a second to aim his long telescopic rifle at that tree and down went Johnnie Reb like a crow from his nest..."

 

[kBob]

I would like to know how many of the Indians were armed with 1853 3-band Enfield Rifles verses some smooth bore musket.

What became of captured and surrendered muskets and rifles?

Anyone have answers and sources?

-kBob

 

[LoneRider]

What became of captured and surrendered muskets and rifles?

Conjecture, fellow Floridian, that said captured rifles and muskets were likely:

a) placed in some kind of armament reserve
b) used to equip loyalist Indian territorial forces.
c) disposed of, with some examples surviving in the collections of individual British officers/NCOs or even other ranks.

Disclaimer: This is only a speculation based on logical deduction, none of these conjectures came from any sources.

 

[kBob]

LoneRider,

I do know that supposedly Indian troops after the Mutiny were the very last to transition to newer arms. Ffor instance they were still issued the Snider long after the rest of the Empire had gone to the Martini and had the Martini after everyone else got Lee Enfields of one sort or another.

I was wondering if the M1853s that were captured and those in the hands of loyal Indian troops were taken up and replaced with M1842s or some other smooth bore at the end of the Mutiny.

-kBob

 

[John C]

Interesting. My great-great grandfather fought in the Indian Mutiny as an enlisted soldier in the British Army. I have a photograph of him in his NCO uniform later in life. He lived into his 90s, after the turn of the century he wrote some long letters that include memories of some battles he fought in. Apparently, he also fought in Afghanistan in the 1880s. He died in North Dakota, after moving down from Canada, where he went after retiring from the British Army. I have the number of his regiment (but not handy). It was downsized from the army roles after World War II.

I'd like to learn more about the Indian Mutiny. Can you guys recommend some books?

-John

 

[4v50 Gary]

Hi LoneRider,

Thank you for your service and a hearty welcome to the blackpowder forum. I've heard of Jim the Nailer, but don't know much other than what Gilbert wrote.

Sometimes you can pick up bits and pieces from published diaries or journals of soldiers, officers and units that served in a particular area. The trouble is that unless you're in England where these books are available at some library, or have a lot of money (Naval & Military Press in the UK republished many Victorian era books), it can be a very time consuming, expensive research project. Often times reading a book can be a hit or miss proposition (no pun intended). Sometimes there's only one sentence that is useful in an entire book. Sometimes it's only a clue leading you to more books.

If you would like to read more stories of blackpowder era sharpshooting, click the link here to the thread entitled Bedtime stories. You'll find excerpts and findings from a book project on the blackpowder sharpshooter. Be prepared for hours of reading. Got coffee?

Gary

 

[messerist]

John C. I can recommend a good book that is still available. I saw a copy in a Barnes & Noble last year in Orlando FL. It is by Andrew Ward titled Our Bones Are Scattered. Amazon has copies both in hardcover and paperback. I think it is an excellent book to start your study of the Mutiny. Heavily footnoted and full of both primary and secondary sources

 

[John C]

Thanks, Messerist. I'll track it down.

-John

 

[5Rfanatic]

I just saw a show on some of those old rifles. The whitworth was capable of making shots at 1500 yards.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The Whitworth could hit a 32 foot long by 2 foot tall target, representing a squad of men in formation, at 1880 yards distance. At that distance, there was sufficient energy to drive the bolt several inches into the oak target.