200gr SWC; "proper" OAL puts bullet INSIDE the case!?

[editingfx]

Setting up my Lee turret for 1st time 45ACP. Everything going normally, until I get to setting OAL. Using MBC IDP#1 200gr SWC. Lee & Speer books recommend 1.190 OAL. HOWEVER, when set to that OAL, the top swage (?) shoulder (?) of the SWC bullet is actually inside the case mouth. I can't believe this would feed properly. Should I just increase OAL until the shoulder of the bullet is flush (or above?) the mouth of the case?

PS - guesstimating it'd take about .03 more to achieve above

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, decrease the seating depth until you have some shoulder outside the case to taper crimp against.

You can't use Lee & Speer 1.190" OAL seating depth as gospel because neither one were using the same exact bullet design as the MB's you have.

Were I you, I would take the barrel out of the gun and use it as a chamber check guage at the bench.
Just seat deep enough that the rounds will drop freely into the chamber without the bullet shoulder hitting the rifling.

When it comes to feeding SWC, longer is better.

rc

 

[editingfx]

Thanks RC; and how do I tell if it's hitting the rifling? (something tells me I should know this already from loading 9, but I guess it's never been an issue)

 

[rcmodel]

If you drop a round in the chamber and it goes "chunk" and comes up even or slightly below the barrel hood, then falls back out, it is not hitting the rifling.

If you have to press it all the way into the chamber to seat it, and it won't fall back out under it's own weight, it is.


Alternately, you can seat one long, then color the bullet shoulder with a Magic Marker.

Keep seating deeper until the rifling leade stops rubbing the Marker off the bullet shoulder.

rc

 

[editingfx]

thanks!

 

[243winxb]

Some photos here of 45 acp, how to set COL http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa

 

[remmag]

243 and rc
i am working with basicly the same question, i bought the swc 200 grain from missouri bullet also
i was loading a dummy cartridge and came in to post the same question,
i seen the picture of the 45 case with the swc and have set i dummy round to that dimension (back of case to the shoulder) , here is my question that goes a little further
by measuring my case length .890 and adding the bullet length .644 ,adding those 2 together. and subtracting the oal when set per your spec is 1.274 i am figuring the bullet is seating into the case .25
my loads i was shooting with rnfp bullets with the same calculation were seating into the cases .238
thats a difference of .012 less the bullet is in the case
with that being said i (think) i should start with 5.4 grains of unique powder (what i was using with the rnfp) and work my way up from there
what is confusing is the lyman manual is telling me to start with 6.0 grains

i am starting to figure out that different bullets are longer than others which will change your pressures with a given charge. it seems the manuals would give you the bullet length so you could do the math and figure how much of the bullet is in the case so you would have a reference point because after all oal is not what changes the pressure its actually how much bullet is in the case
am i thinking correct or am i thinking too much

thanks

 

[rcmodel]

Thinking too much!
Lyman #49 says 7.5 grains Unique is MAX with either of the two 200 LSWC bullets they list data for.

The rule of thumb is to reduce a max load 10% to find a safe starting load.
A 10% reduction from the 7.5 MAX load is 6.75 grains.
Lyman lists a 6.0 grain starting load with one bullet and a 5.0 starting load with the other one.

Both are very conservative, and are shown more to get the velocity down very low for light target loads then for any safety reason.

Anyway, the .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge in the grand scheme of things.

Any seating depth within reason is not going to prove dangerous with any starting load.

rc

 

[remmag]

thanks
i tell you this has been great having you geys to help

 

[Epicurean]

This must be the day for newbies to load .45 acp. I followed the advise given here and elsewhere in the forum about tailoring OAL to your barrel. I used my SIG P220 barrel and Dan Wesson PM7 barrel for this purpose. I'm loading a Missouri Bullet Bullseye #1 200 grain SWC. I found the optimal OAL for the SIG to be 1.257" and the DW to be 1.266". Is it OK to load to 1.257" and shoot in both guns?

My apologies if this question hijacks the thread.

Edit: I just saw my question answered in Walkalong"s excellent new post on this subject. You guys are truly amazing!

 

[OB_WAN]

just saw this. should help answer all your questions

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[editingfx]

Now that was an awesome thread! How the heck did people get along before the interwebs?

 

[Walkalong]

There was this cool thing called books, and of course learning from the folks before you. You dialed phones back then too. No buttons, much less cellular.

The internet makes it much, much faster to spread both good and bad information.

We generally spread much more good than poor information around here.

 

[editingfx]

Books, vas ees das "books"? ;P

Seriously, resources such as THR are very much indeed like having multiple masters from which to apprentice.

 

[mnhntr]

Not sure if the bullets are the same length but I recently loaded some rainier 200gr plated SWC and my OAL was 1.247

 

[Walkalong]

I have always loaded the Ranier 200 Gr SWC at 1.265 O.A.L.

I don't know about the OP's Missouri Bullets SWC.

 

[ants]

One of these days, the senior members of this Forum will convince our beloved rookies that the OAL listed in the data is NOT the 'recommended' length, nor the 'optimal' length, nor the 'proper' length.

The cartridge overall length listed in published data is the length they used in the lab for the powder charges tested, resulting in the pressures listed in the data.

Your OAL can (and usually should) vary. You can always use a longer dimension. You should use careful thinking and appropriate caution if you intend to use a shorter OAL dimension, for it will result in higher pressure than that listed. Be cautious and use wise judgement.

 

[TonyAngel]

Keep in mind that books list load data for specific components and the load data is just a guide. It's not gospel, espicially with regard to OAL. I'm loading the same projectiles that you are. The ones that I'm using now are from MBC, but it seems that all of the bullets that I've used for the last 20 years or so have all been of the same profile. It appears to be pretty popular, so I don't know why there isn't specifice data listed. Anyway, I'm seating to an OAL of 1.25". Rounds drop in and out freely and no feed issues in my guns.

I run the 200gr LSWC over a mid range charge of AA No. 2 and it's super clean and leaves no lead in the barrel that a few swipes of the brush won't take out. I took my .45 out to the range yesterday and put 250 rounds through it. I just cleaned the gun in 15 minutes.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When I see some of the OAL listings in manuals I have to wonder how they were able to load the bullets to that depth. (1.190" or 1.200") I rarely have an OAL of less than 1.250" and usually no longer than 1.270" with the .45 Auto ammo I load. (according to the profile of the bullet I'm loading)