22 Hornet - Frangible 42gr bullet?

[Esoteria]

I'm planning to get a CZ 527 in 22 Hornet next month, and I've been looking at my reloading options.

Theoretically the rifle could be extremely accurate. I'm looking to develop two loads -- one that's cheap to shoot but still stays under 2 MOA, and another for maximum accuracy without breaking the bank.

For the latter (high accuracy, hand measure each powder charge kind of thing), I figured I'd go for the 40 gr Speer bullet or something along those lines.

For the former, I've been looking for a cheap bullet. Unfortunately I hear the twist rate of the 527 doesn't accommodate 55 grain bullets, and I haven't been able to find anything else in the $0.10 per bullet range, but I just noticed this one from our friends at RMR:

http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/224-...ble-NEW-1000-Ct-224-42-Frangible-NEW-1000.htm

Now, because this is a lead free bullet it's the size of a 55 grain. What do you guys think? What are the chances of this giving me acceptable (2 MOA) accuracy in .22 hornet?

 

[Esoteria]

Bump. Hoping to get some thoughts from .224" reloaders, even if not 22 Hornet.

 

[Walkalong]

A lot of folks use the 35 or 40 Gr V Max in .22 Hornet. Mine shoots the 40 Gr really well with the right load.

I have no idea how it would shoot the 42 Gr Frangible bullet, but would think it could do 2 MOA or better from the CZ, assuming they'll shoot well in a good barrel and are not too long for the twist rate.

Here is one that is less than .10 a bullet.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/Item/000042234

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...224-Diameter-34-Grain-Flat-Base-HP-5000-Count

 

[cpt-t]

Esoteria:
I have been shooting and reloading for a 22 Hornet, since the mid 1970`s, and it is one of my favorites. My Son and I both shoot a CZ 527 22 Hornet now and his a Full Stocked model and mine is the American model. And both of our rifles shoot extremley well. IMHO the CZ 527 22 Hornet is the best 22 Hornet I have ever shot or owned. The load we use 95% of the time is 11grs of IMR4227 and a 35gr V-Max bullets at 2860fps. And we are both getting 1/2 inch or better groups at a 100 yds with that load. I can`t get 40-V-Max bullets to load in the mags, for they are to long. And CZ says do not ((( SINGLE LOAD ))) their rifles. I have shot a lot of 45gr Rem HP`s and 46gr Win HP`s over the years with great success. I think 22 Hornets just shoots short stubby bullets better or at least they do for us. But the 35gr V-Max load just shoots better for us, than anything we have ever tried. Reloading is easy and cheap, and our case life is very good using it. We small game hunt and varmint hunt and target shoot with our 22 Hornets. If I could help you out in any way with your new CZ 22 Hornet, it would be my pleasure.
ken

 

[Esoteria]

@Walkalong
Thanks for the suggestions on bullets. Looks like I may need to do some more digging around. No sense in paying 8.5 cents per bullet if it's going to be inaccurate and there's a 10.0 cent bullet available that shoots well.

I do worry about the frangible bullet's length, as its weight is probably fine. Again I'm looking for the 1.5 MOA range for the high-volume load. This would be something that I load up in a turret press, possibly using an AutoDisk or other easy measure, so that I can shoot 50 to 100 rounds on a weekend.

The "real" load for accuracy is a different story -- weighing each powder charge and checking seating depth every few rounds and such. It'll be the first time I've really loaded for accuracy besides the .45-70, which I haven't done a whole lot of just because I don't have a super good rest and I'm using iron sights on that one, so it's really hard to tell the difference between the load's accuracy and my own skill.

I see the V-Max bullets are consistently a favorite, so I may go that route instead of the Speer I had my eyes on for the accurate load. 18 cents a bullet is hardly unreasonable.

@cpt-t
It's really great to hear from someone with a lot of first-hand experience. I'd love to get some more tips from you like the overall length problem you had. Why doesn't CZ recommend single loading? Too much strain on the extractor? I actually am very regularly in the habit of single loading my two existing bolt action rifles, so I'll have to break that habit quick....

I don't have any IMR4227 on hand but I do have Lil' Gun because I load .410 from time to time. I've heard great things about Lil' Gun and in every article I've read that compares loads it's been among the very top performers, so I'm definitely planning to start there.

One of the potential advantages I saw in the frangible bullet was that I shoot steel targets (3/8" AR500) and at least one of them gets dented up a bit by regular .223 at 50 yards. I think it may be a weaker steel because most of my other targets can take the same hits without much evidence. Anyway I wonder if frangible bullets cause less damage to the steel. Then again, since any of the Hornet loads will be going the same speed or a little slower than .223, and have less mass behind it, I guess I shouldn't worry about it. Kind of stupid to develop a load around one potentially faulty target, too.

At $30 shipped I may just buy 250 of them to try out. Meanwhile I'll follow Walkalong's cue and look for other low cost bullets that are more traditional.

Great to hear from you guys. I look forward to getting other feedback or suggestions, especially if someone's used this bullet or a similar one before (even in other cartridges)

 

[cpt-t]

Esoteria:
I call CZ and talked to a gunsmith in KC and also the manager of their Custom Shop. And they both told me that over 1/2 of the rifles returned that they had to rework were caused by single loading. Broken Extractors caused by single loading because CZ Rifles are Controled Feed Bolts rather than Push Feed Bolts. Also the people at CZ in KC are just great to deal with and get info from. They always have had time to talk to me any time I have called them. The seating problems I had using the longer lead free bullets were that you had to seat the bullets so deep into the case to get them to fit into the magazine.They just would not work for me. I tried H110, Littlegun, and IMR4227 powers, and IMR4227 worked by far the best for me, and I weight the power charge for every round. I bought quite a few box`s of Barnes Varmint Grenade`s in both 30gr and 36gr bullets to use in my CZ 527 22 Hornet. And I just could not get them to group even 1/2 as good as the 35gr Hornady V-Max bullets. I try to by 10 boxes of 35gr V-Max`s at a time or more at Gun Shows and other bullet sales to cut down on my costs. Also I am buying IMR4227 power in as large a containers as I can or several 1lb bottles at a time to cut costs. I also just use standard WIN, CCI, and REM Small Rifle Primers. Try some IMR4227 powder if you can, I think you will be really susprised with the size of your groups.
ken

 

[Esoteria]

@cpt-t
Thanks a lot for the input. Every rifle's a little different so I guess it's not too surprising that some have better luck than others with certain recipes. I'll keep an eye out for IMR4227 -- even if it doesn't work out for me in 22 Hornet I'll end up using it for my hotter 357 loads.
As for the bolt design, I hadn't actually looked into the controlled feed vs push feed subject. Doing some research now -- interesting reading. While I really like the idea of trying out the controlled feed and learning about its advantages I have to admit it'll be a pain to remind anyone else that shoots the rifle not to single load. Oh well.

 

[Esoteria]

EDIT - removed post. I was bumping but then realized Walkalong has mostly answered my questions. Maybe someone else has experience with it too, though.

 

[shootniron]

removed

 

[Jesse Heywood]

One option for plinking bullets could be the 40 gr SJHP for the 22 TCM. $70 for 1,000.
http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=TCM0

 

[Esoteria]

Thanks for the link, Jesse! I'd been looking into the 22 TCM a few times over the past year but it didn't occur to me to look at the bullets for hornet loading. I agree -- these seem like they'd be the right shape and weight to get good accuracy out of a plinking load.

When I get the rifle (hopefully this week) and start reloading for it (hopefully next week) I'm going to be really thorough about recording my results, so I can come up with a long term low-cost solution. Just yesterday I was out with the new scope on my Savage .22 LR and went through about 100 rounds pretty quickly. I expect I may get to that point with the Hornet if I can find an inexpensive enough bullet and a reliable, quick enough loading method (I hear the 22 Hornet can be a little fussy to reload).

Here's what bullets I've got on my list. (These are only the low-cost plinking options)
MidwayUSA Dogtown 34 gr -- $0.13 each, or ~$0.15 with shipping
42 gr Frangible from RMR (risk of poor performance for CZ 527) -- $0.08 each shipped
Armscor 40 gr SJHP (22 TCM) -- $0.07 each, $0.085 with shipping
Midsouth Varmint Nightmare 34 grain -- $0.095 each, ~$0.11 with shipping

The clear front-runner in the list above is Jesse's suggestion of the TCM bullet. I'm anxious to give it a try but it's a bit expensive on shipping to try 100 of them. After I get some loading experience with the Dogtowns a try I may just take the plunge on the TCMs. On paper I can't see any reason why they would perform poorly.

It may sound like a lot of penny-pinching to be worried about the $0.03 or $0.05 difference between the low cost 40- and 42-gr options and the 34-grain ones, but after a few thousand rounds it'll make a difference.

Side note: Now that I see the relatively low cost of reloading .22 TCM I'm suddenly interested in getting a 1911 chambered in it again. Too bad they don't sell conversion kits. I'd much rather reuse my Kimber single stack instead of getting another frame. =/

 

[bonza]

I recently bought a .22 TCM rifle, still in the box awaiting the scope & rings to arrive! In the meantime I've been reading up on the caliber & from what I can gather the factory 40gn FNHP bullets are not very accurate.....at least from the rifles.
I do not shoot a .22 Hornet, but have quite a bit of experience with the .218 Bee, mine being a small frame Martini with a Winchester Model 52 barrel fitted & rechambered. It is very accurate with most any of the 40gn & 45gn 'stubby' bullets from Sierra, Nosler, & others, but have had especially good results on paper & gophers with the Nosler 40gn HP Varmageddon bullet ($30 for 250 from Grafs). The Nosler 40gn 'Lead Free' ballistic tips do not stabilize very well, & the very long (for weight) Barnes 36gn HP 'Varmint Grenade' bullets have a hard time finding the paper at 100yds!! Of course, the twist rate of the ex-rimfire barrel isn't optimal for such long bullets, but I assume it would be similar to your Hornet's barrel(?). I guess what all this is leading to is; I wouldn't expect much, accuracy-wise, from any of the long-for-weight bullets from a .22 Hornet.
I have just ordered 500 of the Midway 34gn Dogtown bullets, mainly with the TCM is mind, but will be interested to see how they perform in the .218 Bee as well.

 

[Esoteria]

I have to admit I'd be surprised if the TCM bullets were just inherently really inaccurate, although clearly since they're meant for that caliber only they don't stand to benefit from very tight tolerances in manufacturing as long as they can still manage good accuracy out of a pistol. Meanwhile many have had a lot better luck with the varmint grenades in 22 Hornet than you've had. But twist rate and whatever other characteristics of the rifle that seem minor at first glance seem to have a pretty big effect on performance for these things.

Thanks for sharing your experience, and pointing out the Grafs sale. Incidentally the 40 gr Noslers are one of the types I sprung for in a box of 100. We'll see how they do.

My rifle probably isn't coming in 'till Monday, which makes me sad. =(

 

[bonza]

I haven't seen the TCM factory bullets other than in loaded ammo, but to me they look like .22 Magnum JHP projectiles. Twenty-odd years ago I lived in Australia & shot Lever Action Competition with the SSAA. For a number of years I used a Winchester Model 65 in .218 Bee & was using the 40gn FMJ .22Magnum bullets that Winchester(Australia) used to sell as a bulk component. They shot particularly well in both the Model 65 & later in a Marlin 1894CL that replaced it. However, the JHP version of the .22 Magnum bullet never did fare as well. After I moved to the USA I tried in vain to get Winchester to sell the bullets as a component over here, they were especially popular in Australia with the professional Kangaroo & Fox shooters, usually used in .222 Remingtons, & used to retail (if memory serves) at around $40 for 1300!!