22 Hornet

[Cee Zee]

I guess you could say the same thing about a 22-250 vs a .223

Actually I think the .22-250 shoots flatter and faster making it easier to hit targets at longer distances. Some say it hits harder at longer ranges but I'm no expert on that. I don't think there's a lot of difference from what I've read. I do know that I can hit what I shoot at with my .223 out to at least 500 yards unless the wind is too strong. And from what I've seen I don't think the Hornet has the downrange power of a .223.

BTW Vern I would certainly want to use something more powerful than a .22 for a shot that far on a feral dog. A .22 loses a lot of power by the time it gets out to 100 yards. I don't like to shoot anything unless I'm pretty sure it's going to die quickly and that may not happen at 100 yards with a .22. I'd want to use my .223 for that. A Hornet would work I suppose but that still doesn't set it apart from a .223 enough to make it worth the extra money for the ammo IMO. If I was reloading it might not be as much of a problem. I really don't like shooting dogs at that distance anyway. There's too much chance of not hitting it cleanly and I have a thing for dogs even if they are wild. The one time I ever shot a dog with a larger caliber than a .22 it was a bad situation. The dog didn't die until I tracked it down and shot it again. And I had shot it solidly the first time. It took hours to track it down. I don't ever want to go through that again. If I shoot a dog I want a clean hit right behind the ear where I know the dog is going to die instantly or within a few seconds at most. I'm not the same on shooting varmints but I would want to shoot a game animal where I knew it would die too. I still haven't figured out how that dog managed to live after I shot it the first time but it did. It was a bad situation.

 

[Loosenock]

Couple of things maybe worth reasoning with. IIRC the original Hornets were .223 bores and the ammo of the day was .223. I bet modern rifles have a .224 bore while the ammo is still .223. Which doesn't mean much but a .223 bullet in a .224 bore just might loose a whisker of a smidgeon in accuracy. Then if you reload .224 bullet they could be for higher velocities like the .22-250 and might not expand properly at lower Hornet velocities. Careful selection of modern bullets when reloading needs to be considered.

I had a pre-64 Winchester Mod 70 chambered in K-Hornet, it was and I imagine still is a wonderful rifle. But it was way over powered for small game like rabbit and squirrel. To much damage and blood shot meat.

The last time I found ammo for sale was at Bass Pro and it was over $50 for 50 rounds.

I once read that the Hornet was a favorite cartridge of the Inuit of the north and ice country. An un-official record polar bear was suspected killed with a Hornet. But was suspected a trapped animal. I read that maybe 40 years ago so take it with a grain of salt.

It is a fun cartridge to shoot and own.

'loose

 

[Vern Humphrey]

BTW Vern I would certainly want to use something more powerful than a .22 for a shot that far on a feral dog. A .22 loses a lot of power by the time it gets out to 100 yards. I don't like to shoot anything unless I'm pretty sure it's going to die quickly and that may not happen at 100 yards with a .22. I'd want to use my .223 for that. A Hornet would work I suppose but that still doesn't set it apart from a .223 enough to make it worth the extra money for the ammo IMO. If I was reloading it might not be as much of a problem.

Of course I reload -- in fact, to realize the potential of the Hornet, you HAVE to reload.

I can make a Hornet shoot, but a lot of people are disappointed that factory ammo and typical reloads won't give the accuracy they expect. It takes special reloading techniques.

The Hornet was originally the .22 WCF, developed in the 1880s as a black powder cartridge, and a lot of factors in its design are based on black powder requirements. Those factors affect accuracy negatively -- note some comments above about disappointing accuracy in the Hornet.

I put a lot of work into the Hornet and developed a reloading process that gets the max out of the cartridge and produces gilt-edge accuracy.

 

[heycods]

I have carried a Handi Rifle in my truck since early 70s. I reload and cast for it, It has ben my 22 for last couple of years. Seldom do I hunt whitetail with any thing else , Neck problems put my big bores on the shelf, and where I hunt 50 yds is a long shot.

 

[itsa pain]

I guess you could say the same thing about a 22-250 vs a .223 (except price per shot). I guess you can debate for/against most any caliber.

What I like about the Hornet is that it has about 90% of the whack of a .223 with less than 1/2 the powder. Maybe it isn't the cost so much as the muzzle blast (or lack thereof). Report from mine seemed about the same as a .22LR or maybe .22 mag.

I'm in the process of getting rid of my .22-250 and instead using a .204, .223, and the Hornet for prairie dogs. The Hornet should be most excellent for anything out to maybe 200 yards.

The Hornet I had was a Ruger, and accuracy was less than stellar. Gonna get a CZ next time and remedy that.

I think the hornet is the most efficient 22 center fire. I have made hits on groundhogs at 250 yds and it is so quiet compared to 223-22.50. I really could not shoot a dog as others have stacked up their bodies unless one was ready to clamp on my leg. Hearing them cry after being hit would haunt me

 

[itsa pain]

Actually I think the .22-250 shoots flatter and faster making it easier to hit targets at longer distances. Some say it hits harder at longer ranges but I'm no expert on that. I don't think there's a lot of difference from what I've read. I do know that I can hit what I shoot at with my .223 out to at least 500 yards unless the wind is too strong. And from what I've seen I don't think the Hornet has the downrange power of a .223.

BTW Vern I would certainly want to use something more powerful than a .22 for a shot that far on a feral dog. A .22 loses a lot of power by the time it gets out to 100 yards. I don't like to shoot anything unless I'm pretty sure it's going to die quickly and that may not happen at 100 yards with a .22. I'd want to use my .223 for that. A Hornet would work I suppose but that still doesn't set it apart from a .223 enough to make it worth the extra money for the ammo IMO. If I was reloading it might not be as much of a problem. I really don't like shooting dogs at that distance anyway. There's too much chance of not hitting it cleanly and I have a thing for dogs even if they are wild. The one time I ever shot a dog with a larger caliber than a .22 it was a bad situation. The dog didn't die until I tracked it down and shot it again. And I had shot it solidly the first time. It took hours to track it down. I don't ever want to go through that again. If I shoot a dog I want a clean hit right behind the ear where I know the dog is going to die instantly or within a few seconds at most. I'm not the same on shooting varmints but I would want to shoot a game animal where I knew it would die too. I still haven't figured out how that dog managed to live after I shot it the first time but it did. It was a bad situation.

Thanks for that heartwarming lovely story. I will treasure it

 

[Cee Zee]

The Hornet I thought about buying was a stalking rifle. It is very similar to rifles used for off hand shooting competitions. They were called Schuetzen rifles. They were custom built by individuals to a large extent although some companies did get involved. They were popular among German immigrants and their descendants in the early 2th century. The wars made them fall out of favor but there are some .22 Hornet rifles around from that period that are very accurate. They are an odd design by today's standard but they make for great off hand shooting. Here's a photo of the one I was looking at. It seems the Hornet was a popular caliber for rifles like these but it was by no means the only caliber used. These rifles were mainly designed in the Suhl region of what was East Germany. The Suhl rifles took their name from this region and they were considered the East German equivalent of the Anschutz rifles.

 

[StrawHat]

Couple of things maybe worth reasoning with.

IIRC the original Hornets were .223 bores and the ammo of the day was .223. I bet modern rifles have a .224 bore while the ammo is still .223.

'loose

You'd probably loose that bet. Factory loads use the larger bullet although the smaller is still available for handloaders with older rifles.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Correct. The early Hornets were made by re-chambering and modifying M1922 Springfields. Since these rifles were originally made in .22 Long Rifle, the early Hornets used the .223 bore, which is standard for the .22 LR.

Those days are long past, however, and all Hornets and Hornet ammo today is made with the standard .224 groove diameter and bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

I had a Savage 23D with a .223 barrel It shot great. I should have kept it. Sigh....

 

[itsa pain]

I have the handi rifle in 22 hornet and wish the mini mauser zavasta makes was around when I got the handi rifle. The mini mauser is almost cheaper then the handi rifles are now

 

[redneck2]

The Hornet I thought about buying was a stalking rifle.

Wow. That's a beautiful rifle. That would be real hard for me to pass up. I mean REAL hard.

Shooting would be sweet. Almost no noise. Zero recoil. Good to 200 yards. What's not to love?

 

[Cee Zee]

Wow. That's a beautiful rifle.

Yeah it sure is. It has a heavy barrel and a very small stock. It's strange how it balances but the thing shoots great. I had it in my safe for a whole winter keeping it for my landlord who was in Florida. That was last winter, not this year. Those things can sell for a bunch of money though. I was trying to sell it for my landlord for a while actually. But I couldn't push myself to try hard to sell it because I kept thinking I'd like to buy it. But I told my LL how much it was worth and now I'm going to have to pay that for it. It really is a nice rifle and I'm sure I'd get a fair deal. But I don't have that kind of money to invest right now. The dang gas company like to bankrupted us this winter. The gas shortage and the ridiculous winter was just too much. It's all I can afford to join the local gun club at least for now. My LL still has that rifle though. I may get it yet.

 

[Still Shooting]

My 2 Cents on the Hornet

I have a special love of the .22 Hornet, probably because it was my first center fire rifle at age 14. I bought a Savage 340 Hornet from another kid for $35, with a 90% done re-stocking job. Finished it up, and it went with me to our summer camp in the NY Finger Lakes. Over the first summer, I put 97 "woodchucks" (local for groundhogs) out of action on the 2 farms behind the camp. Shots were at all ranges, and I fell in love with the rifle.

That gun was stolen during a move from college to my first house after graduation, and I had to wait 22 years until 1990 to buy a Ruger 77/22 Hornet as a replacement. As many have here noted, accuracy of the Ruger was not stellar! That was remedied, and in the process I had it re-chambered to K-Hornet. The rifle "loves" Nosler 40gr. ballistic tips and Li'l Gun, and is shooting better than 1 moa even while fire-forming stock Hornet brass in the K-Hornet chamber. With a 20" barrel, the rifle is light and balances well. Are there hotter cartridges out there in .224? -Sure, but I love my Hornet, and it does the job for me. I reload for it, so I'm not going broke on ammo.

 

[Hanshi]

The only .22 Hornet I currently own is an older Kimber M82. This is a wonderfully accurate rifle and about as cheap to reload as one can get. I've owned a couple of others but let them go. This Kimber loves 11 grains of H110/296 and a 45 grain Hornet bullet. A shade more powder and a 40 grain do as well. I've taken a few deer with it.

 

[Agsalaska]

I recently bought 100 rounds for my Ruger 77/22 for I think $46.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The only .22 Hornet I currently own is an older Kimber M82. This is a wonderfully accurate rifle and about as cheap to reload as one can get. I've owned a couple of others but let them go. This Kimber loves 11 grains of H110/296 and a 45 grain Hornet bullet. A shade more powder and a 40 grain do as well. I've taken a few deer with it.

Try a case full of Hodgedon's Li'L Gun -- and I mean that literally. I hold the case in the tiny pliers on my Swiss Army knife, and use the case as a dipper, filling it, then tapping it gently to settle the powder a bit.

With all the charged cases in a loading block, I use a flashlight to be sure they're all filled to the same level. I checked with Hodgedon on this, and their reply was, "You can't blow up a Hornet with Li'l Gun." In fact, according to them, I'm about 10,000 PSI below max -- but with it's prolonged pressure curve, Li'l Gun gives max velocity.

 

[redneck2]

Who makes the Hornet bullet? Hornady maybe?

 

[Still Shooting]

.22Hornet Bullets

Hornady lists several bullets for the .22 Hornet in their manual:
35gr. V-Max #22252
40gr. V-Max #22241
45gr. Hornet #2230
45gr. Bee #2229
50gr. V-Max #22261, SPSX #2245, SP #2240

Sierra also lists Hornet bullets:
40gr. Hornet #1100 (.223" dia.); Hornet#1200, HP #1385, BlitzKing #1440
45gr. Hornet #1110 (.223" dia.); Hornet #1210, SPT #1310
50gr. SMP #1320, SPT #1330, Blitz #1340
52gr. HPBT MatchKing #1410
53gr. HP MatchKing #1400
55gr. Blitz #1345, SMP #1350, SPT #1360 (this one NOT listed for K-Hornet)

Nosler only lists one bullet for the Hornet - 40gr. Solid Base Ballistic Tip #39555 - I LOVE this one!

I don't load my Hornet above 45 grain bullet weight, as the longer bullets don't give me as good accuracy. I started out 52 years ago with what is now the Hornady 45gr. #2230. From there, I went to Sierra 45gr. #1210, and have had really good (sub-moa) groups consistently with the Nosler 40gr. ballistic tip.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Because the Original Hornets were modified and rechambered .22 rimfires (M1922 Springfields) the rifling twist rate remained 1:16 for a long time. Modern Hornets were made with a faster twist, around 1:14, and these will shoot somewhat longer and heavier bullets -- but that's really not what you want with the Hornet. It's best with light bullets.