22 revolver leading problem, very serious!

[Peter M. Eick]

I was shooting with a buddy today. He was shooting my older dan wesson v22 revolver I sold him for his daughter. He said he was getting tumbling bullets so we went to the 10 yard range and dang if he was not right. The bullets were definitely going through the target sideways at 10 yards. The ammo was remington thunderbolt, which was the cheapest he could find.

We pulled the barrel off the gun and low and behold that the first about 2 inches of the barrel has a serious lead buildup. I cleaned the barrel out with a 22 brush and then had to use a 243 brush to get the rest out. When I was done, it was spotless from the front to back.

We reinstalled the barrel, and then started firing. On the 5th cylinder (30 shots) we noticed the first keyhole on the target. By the 6th cylinder full (36 shots) every shot was keyholing.

We pulled the barrel again and again the first about 2 inches from the cylinder into the barrel was full of lead. You could barely make out the rifling.

When I owned the gun, it had zero problems with federal classic (my standard 22 lr ammo) so I am assuming that it is ammo related. The same ammo works perfectly in a Ruger MK 1 on the same day.

I have never seen a gun lead like this so quickly. So other than scrubbing out all of the lead in the barrel again, and then switching ammo, what else am I missing? As the guy who sold my buddy the gun, I don't like to see him have troubles with it.

Thanks.

 

[dfariswheel]

Make a permanent change of ammo.

Some ammo just leads up some barrels, and cheap ammo often does it worse.
The only "fix" is to use a different brand, and sometimes a better brand.

.22's are famously picky about ammo for accuracy, reliability, and leading.

You can't just arbitrarily decide that you're going to use a certain brand of ammo. Often the gun just won't cooperate, and will make it's choice apparent by shooting terrible groups, causing endless jams, or by leading up the barrel.

 

[bear8mm]

Agreed. Leading is almost always an ammo problem, rarely a gun problem.

 

[dfaugh]

I've tried alot of different ammo,in a wide variety of .22s over the years, always looking for the "one" each gun likes best....And the Remington Thunderbolts, are simply garbage...Never shot well, often misfires,etc. So I don't even try them in anything, anymore. My .02

 

[Standing Wolf]

...the Remington Thunderbolts, are simply garbage...

Frankly, I think you're defaming the word "garbage."

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks guys. I have never seen anything like it and was quite taken aback. We will get out to the range next week with an assortment of ammo and see if something else works better. At least I know federal classics are fine.

 

[1911Tuner]

Leading

Lead fouling is most often the result of flame cutting past the sides of the bullet...not friction between bullet and bore. The gas actually melts some of the lead and deposits it on the walls of the bore. Since swaged lead has some tin in the alloy, it makes for a very effective and stubborn solder.

The cause is either an undersized bullet or an oversized bore or chamber. Once the leading starts, the bullet swages down in order to get past it...and it becomes self-perpetuating because the gas can cut past the sides of the smaller bullet easier. More "solder" sticks to the bore...farther and farther forward...until nearly the whole length of the bore is coated.

Clean the bore to bare metal and try another brand of ammo...Winchester Super-X has always been good to me...and see if the bullets tumble, or if heavy leading occurs. If it does, you've got your answer. If it doesn't, it was the ammo.

Luck!

 

[dfariswheel]

Strangely, back in the 1980's when I was teaching myself how to shoot double action, I used Thunderbolt in the 6" Colt Trooper Mark III I bought for that purpose.

The Thunderbolt was dirty, but shot out of the Mark III with excellent accuracy.

The worst case of leading I ever saw, of course, happened to ME.

I'd bought a new model Calico Model 105 carbine for a range toy.

After sighting it in with ammo from a brand new case batch of Remington standard velocity, I was plinking at the backstop when I noticed something hit several feet away from the shot.

I started watching, and I was getting secondary hits all over the place.

I stopped shooting and checked the bore.
It was so badly leaded, there was only a pin hole through an almost completely plugged bore.
The bullets had been coming out in fragments.

After a MAJOR bore cleaning job, I tried again.
Within 50 rounds, the bore was getting dangerously leaded again.

I tried the ammo in a good number of other .22 firearms and ALL of them leaded, including my Remington 40X Match rifle.

Realizing I had a bad case of ammo, I contacted Remington, and they told me that they'd apparently had a bullet lubricating machine problem for about 30 minutes on one of their production lines, and the bullets had NO lube on them.

Remington replaced the entire 5000 round case, and my leading problems went away.

I'm still amazed that ANY part of the bullets were getting out the barrel, and that the Calico barrel wasn't ringed from the blockage.

 

[Firehand]

I bought a SiG Trailside shortly after they came out. After about 100 rounds the barrel would be fouled badly enough to really screw accuracy. Happened with several different brands, too.

I finally tried using Microlon Gun Juice on the bore, and it worked! Haven't had a problem since.
http://microlon.com/detail.asp?product_id=GJ1

 

[Jim Watson]

Remington Thunderbolt leaded my Ace to the point of keyholing in 1994. I doubt it was out of the same lot as Dfariswheel's.

I shoot the plated stuff in the Ace and in revolvers. Conventional autos and bolt action rifles get lubed lead, it is usually more accurate. Usually, but you have to do the shooting to find out.

 

[pauli]

two types of ammo lead my 22 up something fierce - thunderbolts and winchester super x. plain old unplated, unwashed lead.

two types of ammo don't lead up my 22 - remington golden bullets and federal... whatever they call their bulk packs. copper washed.

i've taken to shooting mostly federal with a round or two of thunderbolt or winchester at the top of the mag (since the federal is too weak to reliably work for me, especially in a full mag). no leading problem yet; i figure the plated/washed bullets might be cleaning up any lead.

now i just need a revolver so i can shoot the anemic federal...

 

[Master Blaster]

Federal copper plated ammo, or federal target grade stuff is the best low cost ammo, it shoots accurately out of every .22lr I own, and doesn't foul the barrel or the cylinder face.

 

[Bottom Gun]

Some of my revolvers lead up when I use regular plain lead .22 ammo.
I discovered that switching to copper plated bullets eliminated the leading problem.