.22 WMR or .17 HMR as an anti-personnel round?

[rangerruck]

dont' kid yourself; a solid point 17 will penetrate body armor. 17's regularly penetrate steel plates, pivots and such. most 17's are now over 2600 fps, and most get near 2700 fps; that is 30.06 speed.
If you adjust for this, a 22 mag reigns energy wise out to about 80 yards, after that, the hmr takes over in energy, for the rest of the trip. Also a hmr is still doing about 2000 fps at 100 yds; that is as fast as a 22 mag at the muzzle.
Also if firing for single shots, a hmr is way more accurate, and less wind sensitive, all the way out to 200 yds, than a 22 mag is.
that being said, 22 mag ammo is cheaper. This is a tough choice, now that i think about it, a solid point hmr will also penetrate a door, I don't know about the 22 mag for this. I think the hmr has better amount of points, but the 22 mag has a lot of energy inside of 50 yards, is less expensive, and more easily found.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I have a 22 mag rifle, its a potent little number, I certainly would not want to be shot with one, out to 100 yards.

 

[BlackHand1917]

Neither of the two rounds mentioned would be an optimum combat round. On the other hand, in a pinch all sorts of things might work.

 

[jimbeam]

Heard of a deer farm in northern Wisconsin using .17 HMR for herd reduction, of course they can pick the best opportunity for a neck shot, but did the job.

 

[ShnogDog]

essentially, unless you manage a 1st shot fatal shot, you wont stop anyone. Do you really want to kill someone? I grew up in the highlands of Papua New Guinea, it was a dangerous place to be living in... but you didnt want to necessarily kill someone. We kept a double barrel 12 guage. 1st barrel was loaded with a cartidge full of rock salt, second barrel was buckshot. Think about it, if you got blasted with a 12 guage, loaded with rock salt, you'd **** yourself then run like a bastard in the other direction. Now if for some insane reason, you didnt back off, indoors, at a range of 10-15ft max a single load of buckshot would put you down and out for good. That was the theory, and it worked perfectly in practice, because nobody got killed, they just ran screaming with their ears ringing and a load of rocksalt in their arse !!! The art of gentle persuasion !!!

 

[alaskanativeson]

Neither round would make a good defense choice. Would they work? Possibly. Do I want to bet my life on it? Hell no. Since I'm not hampered by silly gun laws, my choice of bedside defense is a .45 USP Tactical, but behind my bedroom door is a lever action .454 Casull Puma 92 carbine. I don't worry about zombies, but there is always the possibility of a drunken intruder or a large bear looking for a real Eskimo Pie.

I remember when I read Jeff Cooper advocating the Marlin lever rifle in 44 or 357 as a great urban defense carbine. I have to say, I agree with him. Short, fast, light, powerful, and a large enough capacity to cover everything. You can't pop off rounds with just a squeeze of the trigger, but two well placed shots are much more effective than a twenty or even a fifty round clip emptied on spray-and-pray.

 

[IndianaBoy]

betcha see more penetration an expansion if you bump up the powder load.

Yeah.. let's get right on that. It's just that simple.

Nevermind the weakness of rimfire cases and the fact that the engineers are already running the round at peak safe pressure.

 

[Lucky]

Lol Rbernie, 'which caliber for muuuuurdeeer...' [/hitchcock]

P.S.

There's a 5mm rimfire coming back now, better than either posted option.
http://www.varminter.com/articles.php

 

[woof]

The OP doesn't say why he would be choosing between just these two, but if there is a good reason I think the .22mag is a whole lot better than a pointy stick. I have tried getting my wife to shoot various guns but she doesn't like any of them and won't get very proficient with any but one - a Ruger Single Six. She likes shooting it, is comfortable with it and hits what she shoots at. If I'm out of town I leave it loaded with .22mag. I think 90+% of potential bad guys bug out at the sight of a gun and of the remainder, 90+% won't keep coming if shot with anything.

By the way, I'm amazed at the talk about 100 yards. You would have a very hard time persuading a jury it was self defense at even 20 yards let alone 100.

 

[benzy2]

I agree any bullet is better than no bullet. The original question was urban man shooting at 0-100 yards. 100 yards seems pretty out of the question to me but if thats the question thats what my answer would be for.

 

[Archery Ham]

Of the two choices, I would pick the 22 mag. I like a heavier bullet.

Even Goliath laughed at smaller calibers. It was his last.

 

[noob_shooter]

with enough in the magazine, I think it's a good and cost effective round to use. I own a GSG-5 with 22 round mag and I have faith I'll drop anyone without body armor before the magazine is empty. 22 rounds in my GSG-5 can go pretty damn quick...


i wouldn't use my GSG-5 as a first choice since I got my G27, XD9 and saiga .308, but if I had to use the GSG-5, I'm pretty confident it will get the job done. 22 rounds of cci-mini mags into someone's center mass is gonna do some real damage

 

[noob_shooter]

Onmilo,

you mentioned about 17hmr bullets exploding on contact with coyote's skin... It's the kind of round that matters. if you use fmj or cci game point, it will penetrate the coyote's skin and possible kill it too. The hornady vmax is probably the round you were referring to that explodes on contact.

I did a test myself while in the woods. I fired at a small live tree that was about 4-5" in diameter using 17hmr fmj and cci game point and both went through it. I then used the hornady vmax and it only made a small dent in the tree.

 

[noob_shooter]

rbernie,

You said the 17 hmr cannot penetrate through clothes? Stand back 50yd and let me use my savage 17 hmr with 20 grain FMJ and see what happens.. That's the only way to prove if you're right, right?

Like a friend said, I cannot kill him at 100 yds using my 17 hmr.. underestimating any gun will land you 6ft deep.

 

[woof]

The best gun is the one you are most comfortable with and can place shots with no matter what it is. Some people can shoot a .22mag when they can't do well with anything larger. For them it is best and it "is" the one they should choose.

 

[1858rem]

i would like to know whereabout the 223 overtakes .204 in terms of stopping power or if a 204 ruger is ever ahead. by my figuring with loads i ran over the chrono, my 32g load develops 1194 ft/lb at the muzzle with a BC of .185, and my 40g load develops 1151 ft/lb at the muzzle with a BC of .275.....which is clearly above the .223 to start, but how effective would a high velocity round like the 204 be at stopping a threat? maybe ill start a 204/223 thread if this is too far off topic? sorry

 

[gvnwst]

i would like to know whereabout the 223 overtakes .204 in terms of stopping power...... my 40g load develops 1151 ft/lb at the muzzle......which is clearly above the .223 to start

The .223 has higher MEs (about 1300FPE), and higher energy levels across the board. Plus a bigger bullet, and not only ones designed for exploding Here is hornadys ballistics table for their 40gr V-Max load in .223:
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=8325
And in .204:
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=83206

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Of the two choices, I would pick the 22 mag. I like a heavier bullet.

Even Goliath laughed at smaller calibers. It was his last.

+1, definitely!

 

[1858rem]

i was going by this table, sorry

0 yards 2800 FPS 957 Ft/Lbs
25 yards 2680 FPS 877 Ft/Lbs
50 yards 2564 FPS 803 Ft/Lbs
75 yards 2451 FPS 733 Ft/Lbs
100 yards 2340 FPS 669 Ft/Lbs

 

[gvnwst]

Dude, where did you get that?! Must be for a low power load or something.

 

[woof]

If you have a .22 and can shoot it well you are better prepared for home defense than 99% of people.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Barrow's BAR was converted from .30-06 to .308 - are you sure?

 

[achildofthesky]

I reckon the old "shoot a melon" test is a good enough indicator of the performance ability of the 17HMR or for that matter the 22 mag. Inside of a 150 yards or so the explosive destruction of the tiny bullet is impressive. Accuracy tendencies of either cartridge would lead me to believe that sniping with either and especially the 17HMR could do plenty well. No recoil means VERY precise shooting and head shots with either would simply ruin anyones will to press an attack.

Best for the job? Nope...
Adequacy for the OP's question? Absolutely.

A pocket full of either of these rimfire rounds has an impressive potential of destruction.

 

[JShirley]

Goliath actually laughed at a rock thrown by a boy with a sling.

No, Goliath actually laughed at the stick the "boy" (a fully grown man who fought with the king in battle) was holding. (That's in 1st Samuel 17, verse 43, if you'd like to look it up.)

I have frequently said that any centerfire rifle more powerful than .22 Magnum is powerful enough for a "combat" rifle. I currently have a Winchester .45 Colt doing HD duty, but I wouldn't feel terribly undergunned with my Marlin 1894M, either.

I don't want to be shot with even a pellet rifle. Doesn't mean you're likely to quickly stop a deadly threat with one. Attempting to prove any caliber is combat effective by offering to shoot fellow posters is just stupid.

John

 

[innerpiece]

.17hmr is not as low powerd as some folks make it out to be. everything Ive shot I have killed. I think 5 yotes now, and definetly countless bunnies.

I would NOT recommend .17HMR as a SD choice. but yes, if its all you had, it would do what you need it to.

Id say get a .223 or 7.62x39 platform. an AR is good. SKS will be cheap and more power than youd need at 100yds. barriars n all in an urban setting.