.22 WMR or .17 HMR as an anti-personnel round?

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I personally know 2 men that have some knowledge of guns in general that have .22Mag rifles for hd use. their wives can shoot them well too.
one big + for it is you could carry 100 cartridges easy.
there are better choices for sure I'll take my Marlin Camp 9 loaded with +P handloads in a 20rd mag.
 
JShirley, that quote was from someone who also said:

"I can put 11 rounds into a 8 inch target at 25 yards in 10 seconds with my .45 handgun."

you get my point ;)

ip.
 
As I said, I think a semi .22wmr would be a good HELLO, but really I wish Ruger had made the ranch rifle in .357.... I think the case head is about the same diameter as the 7.62x39...
That would basically have corrected the flaw of the M1 Carbine: ammo.

-Daizee
 
I don't think a BG will stop and think "that sounds like a 17 I should be fine." If all you have is a 22wmr or 17 by all means use it. If you are buying one just for HD and not because you want a varmint rifle/HD rifle think bigger. If for some reason I had to grab a rifle instead of the glock 35 by my bed my varmint rifle would be my first choice. I wouldn't feel undergunned with my AR .204. That and the 300wm and 375 HnH next to it might endanger the rest of the genral public beyond the BG.
If you want a light fast handling rifle for shooting rabbits and coyotes and the like and god forbid maybe a meth crazed zombie robber .17hmr and 22wmr are affordable to shoot and practice with and fun.
 
I personally know 2 men that have some knowledge of guns in general that have .22Mag rifles for hd use. their wives can shoot them well too.
one big + for it is you could carry 100 cartridges easy.
there are better choices for sure I'll take my Marlin Camp 9 loaded with +P handloads in a 20rd mag.
Click to expand...
What do you want to carry 100 rounds with you for HD? For urban use maybe but .223 isn't very bulky. 100 rounds of .223 in 4 mags certainly wouldn't be weighing you down.

As I said, I think a semi .22wmr would be a good HELLO, but really I wish Ruger had made the ranch rifle in .357.... I think the case head is about the same diameter as the 7.62x39...
That would basically have corrected the flaw of the M1 Carbine: ammo.

-Daizee
Click to expand...
Really? They aren't that far off from an energy point. The .357 is a bigger hole and does have some extra energy out of a rifle length but it isn't mind blowing in the difference from .30 carbine to .357 mag.
 
I think he was referring to ammo availability, rather than power. the m1 is the only gun that uses the .30 carbine, so it's not too common, and good expanding defensive ammo is even less common.
 
There sure are a lot of opinions.

I just spent a few minutes compiling data from Wikipedia on 63 different rounds from .17 to 30-06. Sorted by energy, the 22WMRs were 18th and 19th from the bottom beating out some handgun cartridges such as .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and .38 Special.

The bottom of the list was the 22LR, no surprise, but even with a puny energy load, the 22 has a surprising reputation for drilling holes. It may be BECAUSE of the low energy, so the bullet stays in one piece. The holes are not big, however.

Innerpiece said "I'd say get a .223 or 7.62x39 platform." I'm not so sure. I don't see how a civilian can justify a round with so much range and penetration for HD.
 
To me, it's more of a issue of stop & drop than of simply killing the threat. Serious, armed men (much wiser than I) suggest the biggest, fastest caliber that you can shoot well. If that's a rimfire rocket, then there you are!
 
I'll bet the number of times a .22 mag shot "didn't" stop someone where a, say, 9mm (exact same hit) would have is a very small number.
 
I have wanted a 22 magnum auto pistol for PD & HD use for several years, but the fail to fire percentage of a rimfire is very high when compared to a center fire ctg, and as with most straight case auto pistol rounds are prone to feeding problems.

Then came the 5.7x28 FNH with it is bottle neck case, and center-fire 224 bullet, with a bit better ballistics then the 22 WMRF and very high price tag. In my book it is well worth the money. It is accurate, has explosive effect on large feral dogs that drops them instantly from the AR57 and it has no recoil so it is female friendly. The FNH does have one drawback and that is a rather large grip, but I have seen two women use the gun with very good success.
 
Duckslayer good way to get a ticket from a fish and game officer ,shooting turkey with a rifle. And while you talk about that a turkey like most anything wild will take some damage before going down that would stop a man in its tracks. Try bow hunting for turkey ,It's legal . A 2" broadhead in one and it will still more than likely get off the ground fly'n. And you should be shooting at the head with a shotgun.
I would feel fine with a 10/22 to use around my house as i keep one now with both a 2.5 to 10 scope and laser. I know i can put real quick rounds on target the size of 2" at 100 yards all day. It won't knock you down but it will kill you with serveral quick rounds bunce'n around in your body and that is what 22's are known for doing. Beside that there fun to shoot cheaply and that just makes you better. Now if good enough with a 10/22 and want more power then buy a ruger 44 mag carbine. Can't knock that one.
 
Hardluk1,
I, for one, would love to see a video at 100y putting shots into a 2" group rapid fire. Just a 5 shot set would make me a believer. I have seen match shooters with target .22lr's, and doing single shot that would expect a 2" group, but wouldn't be disappointed to get a 2.2 inch group. That is the difference between a score of 100 and a score of 90.

I'm not saying you can't do it, but oh would I love to see it.
 
Would either of these two rounds be acceptable for an urban carbine use? I wouldn't want to be shot with either. However, I do not know if they would be too weak to stop a bad guy reliably for 0-100 yard use.

Dave
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get something in 9mm or 45 that allow you to use a conversion kit to shoot .22lr for practice ;)
 
scythefwd I quess rapid is relative. I can do ten shots in about 20 seconds. may not be machine gun rapid but it is head down rapid. Also most any older mossberg 141 series or older rem 510 series bolt guns will shoot that well ,just takes a little longer with that remington. Even today production 22's can shot well inside 2" so practice. But find the ammo your gun likes,that does make the biggest difference.
 
Now if good enough with a 10/22 and want more power then buy a ruger 44 mag carbine.
Click to expand...
That's hardly the next step after a .22.
I think a 9mm carbine or .357 would be the next logical step.
I don't disagree that it would be a good manstopper.

I do not know if they would be too weak to stop a bad guy reliably for 0-100 yard use.
Click to expand...
They would almost certainly not RELIABLY stop a man.
They would probably do much damage, and probably could kill a man in not an incredibly long amount of time. I would not count on such a small bullet to STOP a man however.
No one wants to be shot with anything. It would certainly deter a person, but I think that if you wanted someone to go down, you would use a larger bullet.
I would compare it to shooting someone with birdshot.
Birdshot is for the birds, and varmint rounds, are for varmints.
The wounds would likely be gruesome, but also superficial, shallow, and lacking the infamous 'stopping power'.
 
"Even Goliath laughed at smaller calibers. It was his last."
This alone was worth the price of admission.
 
Of the two choices, I'll go with the .22WMR and the 50 grain Federal load.
Considering how an attacker can withstand multiple hits of 9mm/.40/.45acp to the torso, the ability to precisely place one good 50 grainer into the command module with a carbine can't be overlooked.
I wouldn't drop my Winchester 9422M in favor of a sharp stick.
 
Certainly not the first choice for most people, and certainly, if you MUST, .22 mag is far superior of a choice to .17 HMR. But.... for an eldery or feeble person, a semi-auto .22 maggie (Remington, Volquartsen) might be just the ticket for self-defense. Very quick follow-up, very little recoil, easily controllable, and not a horribly bad incapacitator (though a BAD one, yes, relative to other choices).
 
Getting a little far afield here, but Remington has recalled the 597 .17 HMR.

To the OP, at one point most of my guns were stored, and my HD gun was a Marlin 57M full of 40 grain hollow points. After seeing the gaping holes that they left in groundhogs, I was pretty confident in it.
 
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